From owner-hexagram-8-digest@apocalypse.org Fri Jul 13 15:24:15 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.11.2/8.11.0) id f6DJOFZ24317 for hexagram-8-digest-outgoing; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:24:15 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:24:15 -0400 Message-Id: <200107131924.f6DJOFZ24317@apocalypse.org> X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8-digest@apocalypse.org using -f From: owner-hexagram-8-digest@apocalypse.org (hexagram-8-digest) To: hexagram-8-digest@apocalypse.org Subject: hexagram-8-digest V1 #200 Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Sender: owner-hexagram-8-digest@apocalypse.org Errors-To: owner-hexagram-8-digest@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk hexagram-8-digest Friday, July 13 2001 Volume 01 : Number 200 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 07:42:41 -0400 From: Lare/Mo Lei-Li Subject: Re: HEX8: Gua Ming (Hexagram Names) Since Bradford has done the fingerwork, I have filled in the tones I have on my cheatsheat below. Looks like you'll have to decide #3 on your own. A.Huang has a few lines discussing the differences... --M/L Bradford Hatcher wrote: > Hi- > > I regret never learning the tones - > never thought I'd speak the ancient tongue, > now it'll give me fits learning to enter Big5, > but here's what I've got on your Gua Ming: > > This gives Mathews #, Karlgren # and Radical+Stroke > > 03 Tun2 6592, 427a, 45+1; Rallying [I have Zhun1; the experts disagree (and > not along old/new school lines, either)] > 05 Xu1 2844, 134a, 173+6; Anticipation > 09 Xiao3 Chu4 2605, 1412; 1149a, 1018a; 42+0, 102+5; Raising Small Beasts > 12 Pi3 1902, 999e, 30+4; Separating > 22 Bi4 5027, 437a, 154+5; Adornment > 26 Da4 Chu4 5943, 1412; 317a, 1018a ; 37+0, 102+5; Raising Great Beasts > 40 Jie3 0626, 861a, 148+6; Release > 53 Jian4 0878, 611f, 85+11; Gradual Progress > 61 Zhong1 Fu2 1504, 1936; 1007a, 1233a; 2+3, 39+4; The Truth Within > 63 Ji4 Ji4 0453, 0459; 515c, 593o; 71+7, 85+14; Already Complete > 64 Wei4 Ji4 7114, 0459; 531a, 593o; 75+1, 85+14; Not Yet Complete > > Hope this helps, > B > > Robert Matusan - Boyler wrote: > > > > Hi there, > > > > I see there are few knowledgeable list members here. > > > > Well, I have problem concerning some hexagram names. Maybe some of you could > > help. > > > > Below are the "problematic" hexagram names. Numeration is according to > > received text, and English names are taken from Wilhelm/Baynes translation. > > > > If some of you can help, please provide me with answers (pinyin, tones, and > > if necessary Chinese characters. Thank you. > > > > 3. (Zhun) Tun2 屯 - Difficulty at the Beginning; > > - (Is it Zhun or Tun2? If Zhun, what pinyin tone?) > > > > 5. (Xu) Ru2 濡 - Waiting (Nourishment); > > - (Is it Xu or Ru2? If Xu, what pinyin tone.) > > > > 9. Xiao3 (Chu4) Xu4 * 畜 - The Taming Power of the Small; > > - (Is it Xiao3 Chu4 or Xiao3 Xu4?) > > > > 12. (Pi) Fou3 *| - Standstill [Stagnation]; > > - (Is it Pi or Fou3? If Pi, what pinyin tone?) > > > > 22. (Ben?) Bi4 3* – Grace; > > - (Is it Ben or Bi4? If Ben, what pinyin tone?) > > > > 26. Da4 (Chu4) Xu4 倧 畜 - The Taming Power of the Great; > > - (Is it Da4 Chu4 or Da4 Xu4? - see 9. above) > > > > 40. (Jie3) Jie4 (Xie4) 解 – Deliverance; > > - (Is it Jie3, Jie4, or Xie4?) > > > > 53. Jian1 (Jian4) * - Development (Gradual Progress); > > - (Is it Jian1 or Jian4?) > > > > 61. Zhong1 (Zhong4) Fu2 世 s - Inner Truth; > > - (Is it Zhong1 Fu2 or Zhong4 Fu2?) > > > > 63. Ji4 (Ji3) Ji4 既 濟 - After Completion; > > - (Is it Ji4 Ji3 or Ji4 Ji4?) > > > > 64. Wei4 (Ji3) Ji4 未 濟 - Before Completion; > > - (Is it Wei4 Ji3 or Wei4 Ji4? - see 63. above) > > > > Thank you very much for your answers. > > > > Wansui! > > Boyler > > > > ===== > > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. > > ===== > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:39:50 +0200 From: "Robert Matusan - Boyler" Subject: HEX8: Re: Gua Ming (Hexagram Names) Hi Bradford, It helped. Thank you. In the meantime I found a list of hexagram names compiled by Richard S. Cook, Jr., University of California, Berkeley (I think he is ex hex-8 list member). The list is somewhere in hex-8 archives. Thank you very much anyway. Wansui! Boyler This gives Mathews #, Karlgren # and Radical+Stroke 03 Tun 6592, 427a, 45+1; Rallying 05 Xu 2844, 134a, 173+6; Anticipation 09 Xiao Chu 2605, 1412; 1149a, 1018a; 42+0, 102+5; Raising Small Beasts 12 Pi 1902, 999e, 30+4; Separating 22 Bi 5027, 437a, 154+5; Adornment 26 Da Chu 5943, 1412; 317a, 1018a ; 37+0, 102+5; Raising Great Beasts 40 Jie 0626, 861a, 148+6; Release 53 Jian 0878, 611f, 85+11; Gradual Progress 61 Zhong Fu 1504, 1936; 1007a, 1233a; 2+3, 39+4; The Truth Within 63 Ji Ji 0453, 0459; 515c, 593o; 71+7, 85+14; Already Complete 64 Wei Ji 7114, 0459; 531a, 593o; 75+1, 85+14; Not Yet Complete ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:49:59 +0200 From: "Robert Matusan - Boyler" Subject: Re: HEX8: Gua Ming (Hexagram Names) Hi Lare/Mo Lei-Li, Thank you for your help. Cook also says #3 is Zhun1. Wansui! Boyler Since Bradford has done the fingerwork, I have filled in the tones I have on my cheatsheat below. Looks like you'll have to decide #3 on your own. A.Huang has a few lines discussing the differences... --M/L Bradford Hatcher wrote: > Hi- > > I regret never learning the tones - > never thought I'd speak the ancient tongue, > now it'll give me fits learning to enter Big5, > but here's what I've got on your Gua Ming: > > This gives Mathews #, Karlgren # and Radical+Stroke > > 03 Tun2 6592, 427a, 45+1; Rallying [I have Zhun1; the experts disagree (and > not along old/new school lines, either)] > 05 Xu1 2844, 134a, 173+6; Anticipation > 09 Xiao3 Chu4 2605, 1412; 1149a, 1018a; 42+0, 102+5; Raising Small Beasts > 12 Pi3 1902, 999e, 30+4; Separating > 22 Bi4 5027, 437a, 154+5; Adornment > 26 Da4 Chu4 5943, 1412; 317a, 1018a ; 37+0, 102+5; Raising Great Beasts > 40 Jie3 0626, 861a, 148+6; Release > 53 Jian4 0878, 611f, 85+11; Gradual Progress > 61 Zhong1 Fu2 1504, 1936; 1007a, 1233a; 2+3, 39+4; The Truth Within > 63 Ji4 Ji4 0453, 0459; 515c, 593o; 71+7, 85+14; Already Complete > 64 Wei4 Ji4 7114, 0459; 531a, 593o; 75+1, 85+14; Not Yet Complete > > Hope this helps, > B > > Robert Matusan - Boyler wrote: > > > > Hi there, > > > > I see there are few knowledgeable list members here. > > > > Well, I have problem concerning some hexagram names. Maybe some of you could > > help. > > > > Below are the "problematic" hexagram names. Numeration is according to > > received text, and English names are taken from Wilhelm/Baynes translation. > > > > If some of you can help, please provide me with answers (pinyin, tones, and > > if necessary Chinese characters. Thank you. > > > > 3. (Zhun) Tun2 屯 - Difficulty at the Beginning; > > - (Is it Zhun or Tun2? If Zhun, what pinyin tone?) > > > > 5. (Xu) Ru2 濡 - Waiting (Nourishment); > > - (Is it Xu or Ru2? If Xu, what pinyin tone.) > > > > 9. Xiao3 (Chu4) Xu4 * .o - The Taming Power of the Small; > > - (Is it Xiao3 Chu4 or Xiao3 Xu4?) > > > > 12. (Pi) Fou3 *| - Standstill [Stagnation]; > > - (Is it Pi or Fou3? If Pi, what pinyin tone?) > > > > 22. (Ben?) Bi4 3* ?" Grace; > > - (Is it Ben or Bi4? If Ben, what pinyin tone?) > > > > 26. Da4 (Chu4) Xu4 ? .o - The Taming Power of the Great; > > - (Is it Da4 Chu4 or Da4 Xu4? - see 9. above) > > > > 40. (Jie3) Jie4 (Xie4) 解 ?" Deliverance; > > - (Is it Jie3, Jie4, or Xie4?) > > > > 53. Jian1 (Jian4) * - Development (Gradual Progress); > > - (Is it Jian1 or Jian4?) > > > > 61. Zhong1 (Zhong4) Fu2 - -s - Inner Truth; > > - (Is it Zhong1 Fu2 or Zhong4 Fu2?) > > > > 63. Ji4 (Ji3) Ji4 - Y - After Completion; > > - (Is it Ji4 Ji3 or Ji4 Ji4?) > > > > 64. Wei4 (Ji3) Ji4 o Y - Before Completion; > > - (Is it Wei4 Ji3 or Wei4 Ji4? - see 63. above) > > > > Thank you very much for your answers. > > > > Wansui! > > Boyler > > > > ===== > > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. > > ===== > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:32:07 -0400 From: "Dr R. Butler" Subject: Re: HEX8: Hesse & Hexagram Names and Trigrams within a classic ancient images meet us amidst the yarrow Hermann Hesse was one of my favorite writer's before I ever read Magister Ludi (The Glass Bead Game). I read all of his books. Occasionally I discover a short story here or there that I have not read, and some of these I so good that I close them before the end in order to savor them unfinshed and read them again years later. His style is very curious for a western mind. This is the first instance I could find of the Yi in western literature. I am sure there are others earlier, & would like to hear of them. When I read this passage, I didn't have a clue what it was all about, till years later when I actually was introduced to the Yi. I still remembered the passage, though. > >In Hermann Hesse's classic, The Glass Bead Game, the Trigram images are >among the first instances of the Yi in western literature. The youthful >Joseph Knecht, the future Game Master, is introduced to Chinese thought by >Elder Brother, who consults the Yi Jing with yarrow stalks on Knecht's >request to study with him as his disciple. > > "The sage sat crosslegged on the floor of reed matting, for a long > time silently examining the result of the augury on the sheet of > paper. 'It is the sign Meng,' he said. 'This sign bears the name: > youthful folly. Above the mountain, below the water; above Gan, > below Kan. At the foot of the mountain a spring bubbles forth, the > symbol of youth.'" > >These Trigram images are a wonderfully evocative way to symbolize the >situations presented by the Hexagrams. For the youthful and future Master, Elder Brother first reads aloud the Images from the Trigrams. One can only guess that Hesse was struck by this imagery as well. Without having a clue what the character means, one can invoke a mental image of the augury. Though this mention of the Yi in the Glass Bead Game is fleeting, it appears at such a crucial point that the importance is self-evident even to a clueless reader. Did Hesse know Wilhelm or Jung? I do not know. the yarrow fulcrum though the stalks are themselves small great is their effect Aloha, Rhett ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 22:30:48 -0400 From: "Dr R. Butler" Subject: Re: HEX8: Hexagram Names and Trigrams & Wen Hi Boyler, I saved this from some time ago. I myself tend to be tone deaf :-) so I stick with the characters. Richard seemed to be quite an expert. I have not gone through his list exhastively. Wu uses Tun2 for #3. When I asked him about it, he said it could be either. All the best, Rhett PS What does "Wansui!" mean? >Hi there, > >I see there are few knowledgeable list members here. > >Well, I have problem concerning some hexagram names. Maybe some of you could >help. > >Below are the "problematic" hexagram names. Numeration is according to >received text, and English names are taken from Wilhelm/Baynes translation. > >If some of you can help, please provide me with answers (pinyin, tones, and >if necessary Chinese characters. Thank you. > >3. (Zhun) Tun2 ± - Difficulty at the Beginning; >- (Is it Zhun or Tun2? If Zhun, what pinyin tone?) > >5. (Xu) Ru2 - Waiting (Nourishment); >- (Is it Xu or Ru2? If Xu, what pinyin tone.) > >9. Xiao3 (Chu4) Xu4 ƒ - The Taming Power of the Small; >- (Is it Xiao3 Chu4 or Xiao3 Xu4?) > >12. (Pi) Fou3 - Standstill [Stagnation]; >- (Is it Pi or Fou3? If Pi, what pinyin tone?) > >22. (Ben?) Bi4 ˄ Grace; >- (Is it Ben or Bi4? If Ben, what pinyin tone?) > >26. Da4 (Chu4) Xu4 § - The Taming Power of the Great; >- (Is it Da4 Chu4 or Da4 Xu4? - see 9. above) > >40. (Jie3) Jie4 (Xie4) ߣ Deliverance; >- (Is it Jie3, Jie4, or Xie4?) > >53. Jian1 (Jian4) ʺ - Development (Gradual Progress); >- (Is it Jian1 or Jian4?) > >61. Zhong1 (Zhong4) Fu2 ‚ - Inner Truth; >- (Is it Zhong1 Fu2 or Zhong4 Fu2?) > >63. Ji4 (Ji3) Ji4 - After Completion; >- (Is it Ji4 Ji3 or Ji4 Ji4?) > >64. Wei4 (Ji3) Ji4 - Before Completion; >- (Is it Wei4 Ji3 or Wei4 Ji4? - see 63. above) > >Thank you very much for your answers. > >Wansui! >Boyler > > X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:06:47 -0700 From: Richard COOK Organization: http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~rscook/ X-Accept-Language: en-US,zh-TW,zh-CN MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hexagram-8 , ZHOU1 Yi4 Subject: HEX8: [Fwd: 64 Pinyin Guaming] Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Status: 26 Jul 1998 Richard Cook wrote: > > Hi All, > I'm fulfilling an old promise to some list members. I spent the whole > morning typing this up ... thought I would do something productive > rather than perpetuate the threats and recriminations that I know we all > find so distasteful. Best wishes to you all! > ******************************************** > > The following is a list of the 64 Guaming (Hexagram Names from the _Book > of Changes_) in the Traditional (Wen Wang) Order. The decimal number in > [ ] is the number in the sequence. The binary digits following indicate > the yin1 and yang2 lines of each hexagram, where "0" is yin1 and "1" is > yang2. Next is the Modern Standard (Beijing) traditional reading of the > character, given in Hanyu Pinyin transcription (with tone numbers). The > numerals in "()" are the page numbers for these characters in _HanYu Da > ZiDian_ 1993 (ISBN 7-80543-239-2/H-63). Help with the Hanyu Pinyin > transcription is given at the end of each line, using a "normal" > American pronunciation of example English words. As for the tone > numbers, 1 is a high even pitch, 2 is a rising pitch (as in asking an > English question, e.g. "What?"), 3 is a low pitch, 4 is a falling pitch > (e.g. English "No."). (Note that "v" in the transcription below > indicates the high front rounded vowel /y/ in IPA.) > > [01] 111111 Qian2 (24) chee as in 'cheap' + 'an' (as in 'man'); > [02] 000000 Kun1 (181) 'coon'; > [03] 010001 Zhun1 (6) 'June'; > [04] 100010 Meng2 (1362) "mung" as in 'monkey'; > [05] 010111 Xv1 (1690) 'Sue'/'shoe' (v is "oo" w/ lips very pursed); > [06] 111010 Song4 (1643) o here is like oo in 'Cook'; > [07] 000010 Shi1 (311) i here is like r in 'sir'; > [08] 010000 Bi3 (595) 'be'; > [09] 110111 Xiao3 Chu4 (236,1061) x btw s+sh, + ow in 'now'; 'chew'; > [10] 111011 Lv3 (412) 'loo' (but v has lips very pursed); > [11] 000111 Tai4 (662) 'Thai' as in 'Thailand'; > [12] 111000 Pi3 (247) 'pee'; > [13] 111101 Tong2 Ren2 (243,43) t in 'to'+ oo in 'Cook'+ng; 'run'; > [14] 101111 Da4 You3 (219,856) d as t 'stone'+ a 'car'; yo 'yoyo'; > [15] 000100 Qian1 (1668) "chee" as in 'cheap' + 'an'; > [16] 001000 Yu4 (1506) 'you'; > [17] 011001 Sui2 (1729) 'sway'; > [18] 100110 Gu3 (1212) 'goo'; > [19] 000011 Lin2 (1170) 'lean'; > [20] 110000 Guan1 (1530) 'goo' + a (as in 'father')+n; > [21] 101001 Shi4 Ke4 (291,280) i is like r in 'sir'; e, i in 'sir'; > [22] 100101 Bi4 (1511) 'be'; > [23] 100000 Bo1 (146) 'beau'; > [24] 000001 Fu4 (350) foo as in 'food'; > [25] 111001 Wu2 Wang4 (482,432) 'woo'; w + a (as in 'father')+ng; > [26] 100111 Da4 Chu4 (219,1061) d as t in 'star'+ a 'star'; 'chew'; > [27] 100001 Yi2 (1818) 'ye' as in "Hear ye! Hear ye!"; > [28] 011110 Da4 Guo4 (219,1602) 'goo' + 'oh'; > [29] 010010 Kan3 (179) k + a in 'star' +n; > [30] 101101 Li2 (1708) 'Lee', li as in 'Lisa';; > [31] 011100 Xian2 (590) 'CN' (like the letter names said together); > [32] 001110 Heng2 (960) 'hung' ("He hung up his cost."); > [33] 111100 Dun4 (1614) 'dune' (as in "sand dune"); > [34] 001111 Da4 Zhuang4 (219,180) 'jew' + a in 'star' +ng; > [35] 101000 Jin4 (633) 'jean', 'gene'; > [36] 000101 Ming2 Yi2 (627,222) 'me' (as in "Who, me?") + ng; > [37] 110101 Jia1 Ren2 (391,43) 'gee' + a in 'star'; 'run'; > [38] 101011 Kui2 (1047) qu as in 'quit' + 'way'; > [39] 010100 Jian3 (1552) 'gee' as in 'jeep' + 'an' (as in 'man'); > [40] 001010 Jie3 (1633) 'gee' as in 'jeep' + e as in 'end'; > [41] 100011 Sun3 (811) 'soon'; > [42] 110001 Yi4 (1070) 'ye' as in "Hear ye! Hear ye!"; > [43] 011111 Guai4 (22) 'goo' + 'why'; > [44] 111110 Gou4 (439) 'go' (as in "Go!"; > [45] 011000 Cui4 (1349) ts as in 'let's' + 'way'; > [46] 000110 Sheng1 (14) sh + ung (as in 'hung'); > [47] 011010 Kun4 (300) 'coon'; > [48] 010110 Jing3 (4) 'gee' (as in "Gee whiz!") + ng; > [49] 011101 Ge2 (1799) e, is near the i in 'sir'; > [50] 101110 Ding3 (1968) d as the t in 'star' + ee as in 'seen' +ng; > [51] 001001 Zhen4 (1691) zh the j in 'jump', + un in 'fun'; > [52] 100100 Gen4 (1320) 'gun' (as in "Don't shoot that gun!"); > [53] 110100 Jian4 (721) 'gee' as in 'jeep' + 'an' (as in 'man'); > [54] 001011 Gui1 Mei4 (608,435) 'goo' + 'way'; 'May'; > [55] 001101 Feng1 (1486) fung as in 'function'; > [56] 101100 Lv3 (912) 'loo' (but v has lips very pursed, see [10]); > [57] 110110 Xvn4 (415) 'sue' (but v has lips very pursed)+n; > [58] 011011 Dui4 (114) d as t in 'star' + 'way'; > [59] 110010 Huan4 (685) 'who' + 'wan' (a as in 'father'); > [60] 010011 Jie2 (1241) 'gee' + 'yeah' (ye as in 'yes'); > [61] 110011 Zhong1 Fu2 (12,425) j 'jump' + oo 'cook'+ng; foo 'fool' > [62] 001100 Xiao3 Guo4 (236,1602) s/sh, + ow 'now'; 'goo' + 'oh'; > [63] 010101 Ji4 Ji4 (482,744) 'gee' (as in "Gee whiz!"); > [64] 101010 Wei4 Ji4 (483,744) 'way' + 'gee'(as in "Gee whiz!"). > - -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Richard S. COOK, Jr. Graduate Research Fellow STEDT Project, Linguistics Department University of California, Berkeley mailto:rscook@socrates.berkeley.edu http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/stedt http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~rscook/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:38:37 -0400 From: "Dr R. Butler" Subject: Re: HEX8: References for early Chinese Hi Geoffrey, The ISBN is 0-486-26887-X All the best, Rhett > > Is this different from Karlgren's "Analytical Dictionary of Chinese and > Sino-Japanese", published by Dover Books? > ... >Hello Rhett, >I have not seen the Dover version. Is it still in print? ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:45:01 -0400 From: "Dr R. Butler" Subject: Re: HEX8: References for early Chinese Wow Bradford, Cool site! Thanks, Rhett >The website dictionaries like zhongwen.com are getting better all the time. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:59:22 +0200 From: "Robert Matusan - Boyler" Subject: Re: HEX8: Hexagram Names and Trigrams & Wen Hi Rhett, PS What does "Wansui!" mean? It means: "(May you live for) Ten thousand years!" Wansui! Boyler ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 07:56:36 -0400 From: "Dr R. Butler" Subject: Re: HEX8: last...Hexagram Names and Trigrams >Hexagram Names and Trigrams > >from Much Ado about Nothing... > > "Let this be so, and doubt not but success > Will fashion the event in better shape > Than I can lay it down in likelihood." > -William Shakespeare perhaps the essence is this: the Trigrams are very different from the Hexagram Names. aloha, Rhett ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:44:07 +0400 From: "Nakashidze" Subject: HEX8: Hi Rhett You try to reanimate this list. But such periods of silence on a list are not bad. Silence and speech should alternate as a breath and exhalation. Silence is main in conversation like a rest is main in movement. As to my experience with understanding of Yijing, the periods of stagnation (months and even years) were alternated with days of break-throughs. The relations of Jung, Hesse and Wilhelm with each other and with Yijing are very interesting and didactic. Out from these three men Jung seems to be the most stable. Hesse's mental disease was cured by Jung's pupil. Wilhelm's chinesisation and re-westernisation led him to untimely end. Hesse and Wilhelm are very respectful persons, but I think Yijing turned out to be too tough for them. In sympathy with your haiku I dare to express my opinion about Hesse and Wilhelm by the excerpt from my wife's verse: in English it sounds like this The western artist passionate In fantastical metamorphoses Has seen only sea foam or whimsical outline of clouds. The other has conceived to tell God's Word to the decrepit east, captured by a whirlwind of transformations, Has lost both himself and Word. The most serious error in approach to Yijing of Wilhelm (and many other translators) was their humanitarian tendency, likewise in trigonometrical sin and cos one may see biblical sins. The images in Yijing are symbols, like sesam in the well-known fairy-tale being password for opening of a cave, and not an ordinary word, denoting cereals. One example: dou in the hex 55 is translated as dipper, then northern dipper and even polar stars, but I think the word implied ecliptical chinese constellation of bushel (in accordance with Legg). What is the reason to substitute shu (mouse, also having astronomical sense) in the hex 35 by hamster or a marmot etc. Only scientific approach may reveal secrets of Yijin, and in turn, the Book may help us to elaborate new scientific paradigm. The best wishes on Easter Timur ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 06:46:37 -0400 From: Lare/Mo Lei-Li Subject: Re: HEX8: Nakashidze wrote: > accordance with Legg). What is the reason to substitute shu (mouse, also > having astronomical sense) in the hex 35 by hamster or a marmot etc. Do they visit you in your sleep, too? - -L ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:36:22 +0200 From: "L.Heyboer" Subject: HEX8: Re: References for early Chinese In the back of Karlgren is a radical-list. I look for a character in Far-East dictionary, which has a list, I believe in the back, of all entries by radical. I numbered the radicals for easier finding, and did the same with Karlgren's list (not much work). This way I find them quick. What I also did: every time I found a character, I wrote the Far-East number next to the word in Ritsema-and-Karcher's concordance. This way I can find everything very quick. LiSe Yi Jing, Book of the Moon www.anton-heyboer.org postmaster@aheyboer.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 7:18 PM Subject: HEX8: References for early Chinese > Since there is now some activity on the list, I will submit a question which > has been on my mind a while to see if anyone can help. While in Taiwan > recently I found a nicely produced reprint of Karlgren's Grammata Serica > Recensa which is a sort of dictionary of early Chinese. Alas, it replaces > Schuessler's dictionary on my personal list of the most frustrating reference > book ever published. > GSR consists of lists of characters with definitions but the order of the > characters seems to be completely random. There is a radical index but this > is also hard to use because the numbers of the radicals are left out. > Has anyone figured it out? > > May all sentient beings be happy! > Geoffrey > > > ===== > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. > ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:39:10 +0200 From: "L.Heyboer" Subject: Re: HEX8: Hexagram Names and Trigrams & Wen I have them all on my website, with a drawing of the old character, explanation of the constituent parts, and pinyin, only often without tone-marks, because Frontpage cannot write some of them. LiSe Yi Jing, Book of the Moon www.anton-heyboer.org postmaster@aheyboer.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Matusan - Boyler" To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 12:37 AM Subject: Re: HEX8: Hexagram Names and Trigrams & Wen > Hi there, > > I see there are few knowledgeable list members here. > > Well, I have problem concerning some hexagram names. Maybe some of you could > help. > > Below are the "problematic" hexagram names. Numeration is according to > received text, and English names are taken from Wilhelm/Baynes translation. > > If some of you can help, please provide me with answers (pinyin, tones, and > if necessary Chinese characters. Thank you. > > 3. (Zhun) Tun2 屯 - Difficulty at the Beginning; > - (Is it Zhun or Tun2? If Zhun, what pinyin tone?) > > 5. (Xu) Ru2 濡 - Waiting (Nourishment); > - (Is it Xu or Ru2? If Xu, what pinyin tone.) > > 9. Xiao3 (Chu4) Xu4 小 畜 - The Taming Power of the Small; > - (Is it Xiao3 Chu4 or Xiao3 Xu4?) > > 12. (Pi) Fou3 否 - Standstill [Stagnation]; > - (Is it Pi or Fou3? If Pi, what pinyin tone?) > > 22. (Ben?) Bi4 賁 – Grace; > - (Is it Ben or Bi4? If Ben, what pinyin tone?) > > 26. Da4 (Chu4) Xu4 大 畜 - The Taming Power of the Great; > - (Is it Da4 Chu4 or Da4 Xu4? - see 9. above) > > 40. (Jie3) Jie4 (Xie4) 解 – Deliverance; > - (Is it Jie3, Jie4, or Xie4?) > > 53. Jian1 (Jian4) 漸 - Development (Gradual Progress); > - (Is it Jian1 or Jian4?) > > 61. Zhong1 (Zhong4) Fu2 中 孚 - Inner Truth; > - (Is it Zhong1 Fu2 or Zhong4 Fu2?) > > 63. Ji4 (Ji3) Ji4 既 濟 - After Completion; > - (Is it Ji4 Ji3 or Ji4 Ji4?) > > 64. Wei4 (Ji3) Ji4 未 濟 - Before Completion; > - (Is it Wei4 Ji3 or Wei4 Ji4? - see 63. above) > > Thank you very much for your answers. > > Wansui! > Boyler > > > > ===== > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. > ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 11:53:52 EDT From: Aglie@aol.com Subject: Re: HEX8: Re: References for early Chinese In a message dated 4/20/01 2:39:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, postmaster@aheyboer.com writes: << In the back of Karlgren is a radical-list. I look for a character in Far-East dictionary, which has a list, I believe in the back, of all entries by radical. I numbered the radicals for easier finding, and did the same with Karlgren's list (not much work). This way I find them quick. What I also did: every time I found a character, I wrote the Far-East number next to the word in Ritsema-and-Karcher's concordance. This way I can find everything very quick. LiSe >> These are excellent ideas; I will do the same. What have piqued my curiosity in Karlgren are two things. First, what is the rationale for the order of characters in the main section and their placement in groups. Have you figured this out? Second, why is he so laconic? The introduction gives no information about how to use the book nor is any given later. Why does he not number the radicals in the list in back leaving it for the reader to count for him/her self? Is it snobbery to make it harder for non-Sinologists like myself? Schleusser is clear about how he constructed his dictionary despite its irrationality - a dictionary of a spoken language which is no longer spoken. Anyone have any thoughts on these. May all sentient beings be happy! Geoffrey ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:49:32 +0100 From: "Hilary Barrett" Subject: HEX8: Spanish/ Portugese sites? Can anyone recommend any good I Ching sites in Spanish or Portugese? Or any other languages? I get a lot of non-native English speakers at my site's forum, and I'd love to be able to tell them where they can find explanations, translations etc in their own language. Thanks! best wishes, Hilary Sorry to cross-post. I promise not to make a habit of it! ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 13:26:03 -0700 From: Ray Langley Subject: HEX8: Re: [IChing_YiJing] Spanish/ Portugese sites? > Can anyone recommend any good I Ching sites in Spanish or Portugese? > Or any other languages? > I get a lot of non-native English speakers at my site's forum, and I'd love > to be able to tell them where they can find explanations, translations etc > in their own language. > Thanks! > > best wishes, Hilary Hi Hilary. I don't know about web sites but I moderate a Portuguese list on I Ching: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OIching - -- Ray Langley, "Have Luo Pan, Will Travel!" ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 20:11:13 +0200 From: "heybo008" Subject: Re: HEX8: Re: References for early Chinese A very late reply, because my account did not work for some mysterious reason. So I got all messages of the last month today. Good thing this is not a very busy list. I think Karlgren is not the kind of guy to bother with easy finding and such. I never had the idea he had arranged them in any comprehensible order. Once you get used to it, it is no problem anymore. I imagine him scribbling down characters all the time, everywhere he found them, and not thinking of anything logical and certainly not of people trying to find them. I always admire people who make a program and also make a helpfile for it. As if there are two different people inside them. LiSe Yi Jing, Book of the Moon www.anton-heyboer.org postmaster@aheyboer.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 5:53 PM Subject: Re: HEX8: Re: References for early Chinese > In a message dated 4/20/01 2:39:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > postmaster@aheyboer.com writes: > > << > In the back of Karlgren is a radical-list. I look for a character in > Far-East dictionary, which has a list, I believe in the back, of all entries > by radical. I numbered the radicals for easier finding, and did the same > with Karlgren's list (not much work). This way I find them quick. > What I also did: every time I found a character, I wrote the Far-East number > next to the word in Ritsema-and-Karcher's concordance. This way I can find > everything very quick. > LiSe >> > These are excellent ideas; I will do the same. > What have piqued my curiosity in Karlgren are two things. First, what is the > rationale for the order of characters in the main section and their placement > in groups. Have you figured this out? > Second, why is he so laconic? The introduction gives no information about how > to use the book nor is any given later. Why does he not number the radicals > in the list in back leaving it for the reader to count for him/her self? Is > it snobbery to make it harder for non-Sinologists like myself? > Schleusser is clear about how he constructed his dictionary despite its > irrationality - a dictionary of a spoken language which is no longer spoken. > Anyone have any thoughts on these. > > May all sentient beings be happy! > Geoffrey > > > ===== > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:59:35 EDT From: Aglie@aol.com Subject: Re: HEX8: Re: References for early Chinese In a message dated 6/8/2001 2:15:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, postmaster@aheyboer.com writes: << A very late reply, because my account did not work for some mysterious reason. So I got all messages of the last month today. Good thing this is not a very busy list. I think Karlgren is not the kind of guy to bother with easy finding and such. I never had the idea he had arranged them in any comprehensible order. Once you get used to it, it is no problem anymore. I imagine him scribbling down characters all the time, everywhere he found them, and not thinking of anything logical and certainly not of people trying to find them. I always admire people who make a program and also make a helpfile for it. As if there are two different people inside them. LiSe Yi Jing, Book of the Moon www.anton-heyboer.org >> I appreciate this very much. GSR made me feel crazy when I first tried to figure it out. The order seems nearly random as does the numbering system. I have no doubt he was one of the greatest scholars of early Chinese but I wish he'd taken the time to organize more logically. Perhaps working with early texts makes one a little crazy. So I am reassured that I am not the only one able to figure out his scheme for GSR. May all sentient beings be happy. Geoffrey ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 17:20:54 -0400 From: Lare/Mo Lei-Li Subject: Re: HEX8: Re: References for early Chinese [Karlgren] Re: Kargren's GSR As a Kargren groupie, I would like to defend the order of the GSR. -- But I cannot. I just don't know enough. I believe the entries first appeared in a series of articles in the Bulletin of the Museum of Far Eastern Antiquities. I suspect the GSR is simply a pasting together of those individual articles. Btw, there is an index/dictionary keyed to the GSR. It is by Tor Ulving and is very easy to use -- for serious researchers (ie, it costs about $70US). - -MLL PS: You think the GSR is hard to use -- try his [inexpensive but very good] _Analytic Dictionary_. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:29:23 +0200 From: "heybo008" Subject: HEX8: Hexagram for July 11 Time is given for Greenwich main time. For USA subtract appr. 6 hours (11 AM will be 5 AM), for China add appr. 8 hours, for Australia add appr. 9 hours (the difference between your local clock-time and GMT). Given times are NOT exact, they may err some in either direction. I do not know if the most important hexagram for the day is the one of midnight, or the one of sunrise, or two hexagrams: before and after the given time. If anyone has experience, then please share it! July 11 Sun: a 19 until 05.50 GMT (after this time comes hex.52.2, see July 12) Hex.51.2 The shock comes, danger. A hundred thousand lost coins. Climb the nine mounds, do not pursue, the seventh day you will acquire them. Do not fear loss, do not chase after things. You have what belongs to you, and if you lose it, it will return again. Fears are apt to chase things rather than to hold them. Sabian Symbol: A priest performing a marriage ceremony Ceremonies are medicine against fear of losing. Changing to 54.2 Dim-eyed yet able to see. Harvest: determination of a hermit. Make your life not bigger than you are yourself. Its richness does not depend on its size, but on your presence in it. If you fill in your territory everywhere to its borders, it is a greater life than an unlimited space which is not full. Sabian Symbol: A woman awaiting a sailboat If your life is the waiting, you live. If it is the boat, you don't. * July 12 Sun: a 20 until 07.03 Hex.52.2 One cannot save anyone's soul. One can only give the tools one's own soul harbors, like love, harmony, creativity, even the sharing of sadness. It is up to the other how to use it. Sabian Symbol: Gondoliers in a serenade Changing to 18.2 Ramming against the mother's decay. No determination possible. You exist, you live, but if nobody sees, then you almost cannot see it yourself anymore. So make them hear, live visible, audible, touchable. Don't just happen to be on the world but live. Make everyone see and hear, make yourself see and hear. Move! Sabian Symbol: A woman suffragist orating. LiSe YiJing, Book of the Moon www.aheyboer.com Nothing bad - nothing good Find your original face NOW ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:21:08 +0200 From: "LiSe" Subject: HEX8: Hexagram July 12-13-14 July 12 Until 07.30 GMT see previous mail >From 07.30 rest of the day until July 13, 08:15 GMT: Hex.53.2 The wild goose gradually approaches the huge rock. Eat and drink full of joy. Auspicious. It's the small things together that make a relation strong and lasting. When meals are moments of peace and togetherness, when expressions talk of joy and love, when voices sound harmonious, then the relation will last a lifetime. Not words are important, but the feelings they bear. Sabian Symbol: A primadonna singing Changing to 57.2 Seal assignment below the stand. Use numerous chroniclers and shamans. Auspicious. No fault. Often, and especially in contacts, one cannot decide beforehand what is good and what not. One has to listen to one's intuition at the moment itself. Listen with great care! It is extremely important not to get involved with bad forces or to get influenced into making wrong decisions. Sabian Symbol: A dark shadow or mantle thrown suddenly over the right shoulder * July 13 until 08.15 GMT see 'Hexagram July 12-13 >From 08.15 rest of the day, until July 14, 09:20 GMT: Hex.54.2 Dim-eyed yet able to see. Harvest: determination of a hermit. Make your life not bigger than you are yourself. Its richness does not depend on its size, but on your presence in it. If you fill in your territory everywhere to its borders, it is a greater life than an unlimited space which is not full. Sabian Symbol: A woman awaiting a sailboat If your life is the waiting, you live. If it is the boat, you don't. Changing to 51.2 The shock comes, danger. A hundred thousand lost coins. Climb the nine mounds, do not pursue, the seventh day you will acquire them. Do not fear loss, do not chase after things. You have what belongs to you, and if you lose it, it will return again. Fears are apt to chase things rather than to hold them. Sabian Symbol: A priest performing a marriage ceremony Ceremonies are medicine against fear of losing. * LiSe Yi Jing, Book of the Moon www.anton-heyboer.org postmaster@aheyboer.com ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ End of hexagram-8-digest V1 #200 ********************************