08 Netscape

From owner-hexagram-8-digest@apocalypse.org Sat Apr 13 09:57:48 2002 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.11.6/8.11.0) id g3DDvmE03732 for hexagram-8-digest-outgoing; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:57:48 -0400 Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:57:48 -0400 Message-Id: <200204131357.g3DDvmE03732@apocalypse.org> X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8-digest@apocalypse.org using -f From: owner-hexagram-8-digest@apocalypse.org (hexagram-8-digest) To: hexagram-8-digest@apocalypse.org Subject: hexagram-8-digest V1 #206 Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Sender: owner-hexagram-8-digest@apocalypse.org Errors-To: owner-hexagram-8-digest@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk hexagram-8-digest Saturday, April 13 2002 Volume 01 : Number 206 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 01:26:21 -0800 From: Bradford Hatcher Subject: HEX8: Re: Harmen's Links This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------A6E03083BD968C873EBB9C82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > "Harmen Mesker (ITCN)" wrote: > You could check these sites for other Chinese version of the text: > http://home.i-cable.com/yourwrite/classical/yijing/yij-index.html (not > complete yet) > http://www.yohonet.com.tw/index1/fourt1/easy4.html > http://home.netvigator.com/~zhouyi/zzz.htm > http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~yfeng//confucian/zhuzuo/zhouyi/zhouyishuoming.htm > http://www.yaintech.com/pohwong/new_page_42.htm Hi Harmen- It's always good to hear from you. Thanks. These links will make a great addition to my collection, a good cross check to the work I'm doing, and a good source of Big 5 characters if my dictionary ever fails me (hasn't yet). Alas, none of them have the Pinyin and tones that I need for my personal purposes, so I'm still pushing forward with the effort. I'm really new at HTML, but I'm going to try posting one of the Gua right here as an experiment. I thought Hexagram 8 might be appropriate. Forgive me if it gets all munged in the sending, but we live and we learn. Brad - --------------A6E03083BD968C873EBB9C82 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="522A6368"; name="08.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Description: Unknown Document Content-Disposition: inline; filename="08.htm" 08 Netscape 比第八卦水地比坎上下坤
bi3 di4 ba1 gua4 shui3 di4 bi3 kan3 shang4 xia4 kun1

比：吉。原筮元永貞，無咎。
bi3 ji2 yuan2 shi4 yuan2 yong3 zhen1 wu2 jiu4

不寧方來，後夫凶。
bu4 ning2 fang1 lai2 hou4 fu1 xiong1

彖曰：比，吉也。比，輔也。下順從也。
tuan4 yue1 bi3 ji2 ye3 bi3 fu3 ye3 xia4 shun4 cong2 ye3

原筮元永貞無咎，以剛中也。
yuan2 shi4 yuan2 yong3 zhen1 wu2 jiu4 yi3 gang1 zhong1 ye3

不寧方來，上下應也。
bu4 ning2 fang1 lai2 shang4 xia4 ying4 ye3

後夫凶，其道窮也。
hou4 fu1 xiong1 qi2 dao4 qiong2 ye3

象曰：地上有水，比﹔
xiang4 yue1 di4 shang4 you3 shui3 bi3

先王以建萬國親諸侯。
xian1 wang2 yi3 jian4 wan4 guo2 qin1 zhu1 hou2

初六：有孚比之，無咎。有孚盈缶，
chu1 liu4 you3 fu2 bi3 zhi1 wu2 jiu4 you3 fu2 ying2 fou3

終來有他吉。
zhong1 lai2 you3 ta1 ji2

象曰：比之初六，有他吉也。
xiang4 yue1 bi3 zhi1 chu1 liu4 you3 ta1 ji2 ye3

六二：比之自內，貞吉。
liu4 er4 bi3 zhi1 zi4 nei4 zhen1 ji2

象曰：比之自內，不自失也。
xiang4 yue1 bi3 zhi1 zi4 nei4 bu4 zi4 shi1 ye3

六三：比之匪人。
liu4 san1 bi3 zhi1 fei3 ren2

象曰：比之匪人，不亦傷乎！
xiang4 yue1 bi3 zhi1 fei3 ren2 bu4 yi4 shang1 hu1

六四：外比之，貞吉。
liu4 si4 wai4 bi3 zhi1 zhen1 ji2

象曰：外比於賢，以從上也。
xiang4 yue1 wai4 bi3 yu2 xian2 yi3 cong2 shang4 ye3

九五：顯比，王用三驅，失前禽。
jiu3 wu3 xian3 bi3 wang2 yong4 san1 qu1 shi1 qian2 qin2

邑人不誡，吉。
yi4 ren2 bu4 jie4 ji2

象曰：顯比之吉，位正中也。
xiang4 yue1 xian3 bi3 zhi1 ji2 wei4 zheng4 zhong1 ye3

舍逆取順，失前禽也。
she3 ni4 qu3 shun4 shi1 qian2 qin2 ye3

邑人不誡，上使中也。
yi4 ren2 bu4 jie4 shang4 shi3 zhong1 ye3

上六：比之無首，凶。
shang4 liu4 bi3 zhi1 wu2 shou3 xiong1

象曰：比之無首，無所終也。
xiang4 yue1 bi3 zhi1 wu2 shou3 wu2 suo3 zhong1 ye3

- --------------A6E03083BD968C873EBB9C82-- ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:26:38 +0100 From: "Harmen Mesker \(ITCN\)" Subject: HEX8: Re: Re: Harmen's Links This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1BD36.E360A550 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 08 NetscapeHi Bradford, Maybe this site contains all you want? http://www.pale.org/ching/ Best, Harmen. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bradford Hatcher=20 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 10:26 AM Subject: HEX8: Re: Harmen's Links > "Harmen Mesker (ITCN)" wrote: > You could check these sites for other Chinese version of the text: > http://home.i-cable.com/yourwrite/classical/yijing/yij-index.html = (not > complete yet) > http://www.yohonet.com.tw/index1/fourt1/easy4.html > http://home.netvigator.com/~zhouyi/zzz.htm > = http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~yfeng//confucian/zhuzuo/zhouyi/zhouyis= huoming.htm > http://www.yaintech.com/pohwong/new_page_42.htm Hi Harmen- It's always good to hear from you. Thanks. These links will make a great addition to my collection, a good cross check to the work I'm doing, and a good source=20 of Big 5 characters if my dictionary ever fails me (hasn't yet). Alas, none of them have the Pinyin and tones that I need for my personal purposes, so I'm still pushing forward with the effort. I'm really new at HTML, but I'm going to try posting one of=20 the Gua right here as an experiment. I thought Hexagram 8 might be appropriate. Forgive me if it gets all munged in the sending, but we live and we learn. Brad - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ----- =A4=F1 =B2=C4=A4K=A8=F6 =A4=F4=A6a =A4=F1 = =A7=A2=A4W=A4U=A9[=20 bi3 di4 ba1 gua4 shui3 di4 bi3 kan3 shang4 xia4 kun1=20 =20 =A4=F1=A1G=A6N=A1C=AD=EC=B8b=A4=B8=A5=C3=ADs=A1A = =B5L=A9S=A1C=20 bi3 ji2 yuan2 shi4 yuan2 yong3 zhen1 wu2 jiu4=20 =A4=A3=B9=E7=A4=E8=A8=D3=A1A =AB=E1=A4=D2=A4=BF=A1C=20 bu4 ning2 fang1 lai2 hou4 fu1 xiong1=20 =20 =CE=BD=A4=EA=A1G =A4=F1=A1A =A6N=A4]=A1C =A4=F1=A1A=BB=B2=A4]=A1C = =A4U=B6=B6=B1q=A4]=A1C=20 tuan4 yue1 bi3 ji2 ye3 bi3 fu3 ye3 xia4 shun4 cong2 ye3=20 =AD=EC=B8b=A4=B8=A5=C3=ADs=B5L=A9S=A1A = =A5H=AD=E8=A4=A4=A4]=A1C=20 yuan2 shi4 yuan2 yong3 zhen1 wu2 jiu4 yi3 gang1 zhong1 ye3=20 =A4=A3=B9=E7=A4=E8=A8=D3=A1A =A4W=A4U=C0=B3=A4]=A1C=20 bu4 ning2 fang1 lai2 shang4 xia4 ying4 ye3=20 =AB=E1=A4=D2=A4=BF=A1A =A8=E4=B9D=BDa=A4]=A1C=20 hou4 fu1 xiong1 qi2 dao4 qiong2 ye3=20 =20 =B6H=A4=EA=A1G =A6a=A4W=A6=B3=A4=F4=A1A =A4=F1=A1Q=20 xiang4 yue1 di4 shang4 you3 shui3 bi3=20 =A5=FD=A4=FD=A5H=AB=D8=B8U=B0=EA=BF=CB=BD=D1=ABJ=A1C=20 xian1 wang2 yi3 jian4 wan4 guo2 qin1 zhu1 hou2=20 =20 =AA=EC=A4=BB=A1G =A6=B3=A7=B7=A4=F1=A4=A7=A1A =B5L=A9S=A1C = =A6=B3=A7=B7=AC=D5=A6=CE=A1A=20 chu1 liu4 you3 fu2 bi3 zhi1 wu2 jiu4 you3 fu2 ying2 fou3=20 =B2=D7=A8=D3=A6=B3=A5L=A6N=A1C=20 zhong1 lai2 you3 ta1 ji2=20 =B6H=A4=EA=A1G =A4=F1=A4=A7=AA=EC=A4=BB=A1A = =A6=B3=A5L=A6N=A4]=A1C=20 xiang4 yue1 bi3 zhi1 chu1 liu4 you3 ta1 ji2 ye3=20 =A4=BB=A4G=A1G =A4=F1=A4=A7=A6=DB=A4=BA=A1A =ADs=A6N=A1C=20 liu4 er4 bi3 zhi1 zi4 nei4 zhen1 ji2=20 =B6H=A4=EA=A1G =A4=F1=A4=A7=A6=DB=A4=BA=A1A = =A4=A3=A6=DB=A5=A2=A4]=A1C=20 xiang4 yue1 bi3 zhi1 zi4 nei4 bu4 zi4 shi1 ye3=20 =A4=BB=A4T=A1G =A4=F1=A4=A7=AD=EA=A4H=A1C=20 liu4 san1 bi3 zhi1 fei3 ren2=20 =B6H=A4=EA=A1G =A4=F1=A4=A7=AD=EA=A4H=A1A = =A4=A3=A5=E7=B6=CB=A5G=A1I=20 xiang4 yue1 bi3 zhi1 fei3 ren2 bu4 yi4 shang1 hu1=20 =A4=BB=A5|=A1G =A5~=A4=F1=A4=A7=A1A =ADs=A6N=A1C=20 liu4 si4 wai4 bi3 zhi1 zhen1 ji2=20 =B6H=A4=EA=A1G =A5~=A4=F1=A9=F3=BD=E5=A1A = =A5H=B1q=A4W=A4]=A1C=20 xiang4 yue1 wai4 bi3 yu2 xian2 yi3 cong2 shang4 ye3=20 =A4E=A4=AD=A1G =C5=E3=A4=F1=A1A =A4=FD=A5=CE=A4T=C5X=A1A = =A5=A2=ABe=B8V=A1C=20 jiu3 wu3 xian3 bi3 wang2 yong4 san1 qu1 shi1 qian2 qin2=20 =A8=B6=A4H=A4=A3=BB|=A1A =A6N=A1C=20 yi4 ren2 bu4 jie4 ji2=20 =B6H=A4=EA=A1G =C5=E3=A4=F1=A4=A7=A6N=A1A = =A6=EC=A5=BF=A4=A4=A4]=A1C=20 xiang4 yue1 xian3 bi3 zhi1 ji2 wei4 zheng4 zhong1 ye3=20 =AA=D9=B0f=A8=FA=B6=B6=A1A =A5=A2=ABe=B8V=A4]=A1C=20 she3 ni4 qu3 shun4 shi1 qian2 qin2 ye3=20 =A8=B6=A4H=A4=A3=BB|=A1A =A4W=A8=CF=A4=A4=A4]=A1C=20 yi4 ren2 bu4 jie4 shang4 shi3 zhong1 ye3=20 =A4W=A4=BB=A1G =A4=F1=A4=A7=B5L=AD=BA=A1A =A4=BF=A1C=20 shang4 liu4 bi3 zhi1 wu2 shou3 xiong1=20 =B6H=A4=EA=A1G =A4=F1=A4=A7=B5L=AD=BA=A1A = =B5L=A9=D2=B2=D7=A4]=A1C=20 xiang4 yue1 bi3 zhi1 wu2 shou3 wu2 suo3 zhong1 ye3=20 =20 =20 =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1BD36.E360A550 Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 08 Netscape

Hi Bradford,

Maybe this site contains all you = want?

http://www.pale.org/ching/=

Best,

Harmen.

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bradford Hatcher
To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org =

Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 = 10:26=20 AM

Subject: HEX8: Re: Harmen's = Links

> "Harmen Mesker (ITCN)" wrote:
> You = could=20 check these sites for other Chinese version of the text:
> http://home.i-cable.com/yourwrite/classical/yijing/yij-index.html=20 (not
> complete yet)
> http://www.yo= honet.com.tw/index1/fourt1/easy4.html
>=20 http://home.netvigato= r.com/~zhouyi/zzz.htm
>=20 http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~yfeng//confucian/= zhuzuo/zhouyi/zhouyishuoming.htm
>=20 http://www.yaintech.com/pohwong/new_page_42.htm

Hi = Harmen-
It's=20 always good to hear from you. Thanks.
These links will make a = great=20 addition to my collection,
a good cross check to the work I'm = doing, and a=20 good source
of Big 5 characters if my dictionary ever fails me = (hasn't=20 yet).
Alas, none of them have the Pinyin and tones that I need for=20 my
personal purposes, so I'm still pushing forward with the = effort.
I'm=20 really new at HTML, but I'm going to try posting one of
the Gua = right here=20 as an experiment. I thought Hexagram 8 might be
appropriate. = Forgive=20 me if it gets all munged in the sending, but
we live and we = learn.
Brad

=A4=F1 =20 =B2=C4=A4K=A8=F6        =20 =A4=F4=A6a        = =A4=F1   =A7=A2=A4W=A4U=A9[
bi3     di4 ba1 gua4   = shui3=20 di4   bi3   kan3 shang4 xia4 kun1
=20 =
=A4=F1=A1G=A6N=A1C=AD=EC=B8b=A4=B8=A5=C3=ADs=A1A   &nbs= p;            = ;   =20 =B5L=A9S=A1C
bi3 ji2   yuan2 shi4 yuan2 yong3 = zhen1 wu2 jiu4=20 =
=A4=A3=B9=E7=A4=E8=A8=D3=A1A       =    =AB=E1=A4=D2=A4=BF=A1C
bu4=20 ning2 fang1 lai2 hou4 fu1 xiong1
=20
=CE=BD=A4=EA=A1G     =A4=F1=A1A =A6N=A4]=A1C = =A4=F1=A1A=BB=B2=A4]=A1C =A4U=B6=B6=B1q=A4]=A1C
tuan4 yue1=20 bi3   ji2 ye3 bi3 fu3 ye3 xia4 shun4 cong2 ye3=20 =
=AD=EC=B8b=A4=B8=A5=C3=ADs=B5L=A9S=A1A     &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;     =20 =A5H=AD=E8=A4=A4=A4]=A1C
yuan2 shi4 yuan2 yong3 zhen1 wu2 jiu4 yi3 = gang1 zhong1 ye3=20 =
=A4=A3=B9=E7=A4=E8=A8=D3=A1A       =    =A4W=A4U=C0=B3=A4]=A1C
bu4=20 ning2 fang1 lai2 shang4 xia4 ying4 ye3=20
=AB=E1=A4=D2=A4=BF=A1A        = =A8=E4=B9D=BDa=A4]=A1C
hou4 fu1 xiong1=20 qi2 dao4 qiong2 ye3
=20
=B6H=A4=EA=A1G     =20 = =A6a=A4W=A6=B3=A4=F4=A1A        &= nbsp;   =A4=F1=A1Q=20
xiang4 yue1 di4 shang4 you3 shui3 bi3=20
=A5=FD=A4=FD=A5H=AB=D8=B8U=B0=EA=BF=CB=BD=D1=ABJ=A1C
xian1 = wang2 yi3 jian4 wan4 guo2 qin1 zhu1 hou2
=20
=AA=EC=A4=BB=A1G   = =A6=B3=A7=B7=A4=F1=A4=A7=A1A        = =B5L=A9S=A1C =20 =A6=B3=A7=B7=AC=D5=A6=CE=A1A
chu1 liu4 you3 fu2 bi3 zhi1 wu2 jiu4 = you3 fu2 ying2 fou3=20
=B2=D7=A8=D3=A6=B3=A5L=A6N=A1C
zhong1 lai2 you3 ta1 ji2=20
=B6H=A4=EA=A1G     =20 =A4=F1=A4=A7=AA=EC=A4=BB=A1A        = =A6=B3=A5L=A6N=A4]=A1C
xiang4 yue1 bi3 zhi1=20 chu1 liu4 you3 ta1 ji2 ye3=20
=A4=BB=A4G=A1G = =A4=F1=A4=A7=A6=DB=A4=BA=A1A       = =ADs=A6N=A1C
liu4 er4 bi3 zhi1 zi4=20 nei4 zhen1 ji2=20
=B6H=A4=EA=A1G      = =A4=F1=A4=A7=A6=DB=A4=BA=A1A      = =A4=A3=A6=DB=A5=A2=A4]=A1C=20
xiang4 yue1 bi3 zhi1 zi4 nei4 bu4 zi4 shi1 ye3=20
=A4=BB=A4T=A1G   =A4=F1=A4=A7=AD=EA=A4H=A1C
liu4 san1 = bi3 zhi1 fei3 ren2=20
=B6H=A4=EA=A1G      = =A4=F1=A4=A7=AD=EA=A4H=A1A      =20 =A4=A3=A5=E7=B6=CB=A5G=A1I
xiang4 yue1 bi3 zhi1 fei3 ren2 bu4 yi4 = shang1 hu1=20
=A4=BB=A5|=A1G =A5~=A4=F1=A4=A7=A1A     = =ADs=A6N=A1C
liu4 si4 wai4 bi3 zhi1 zhen1 ji2=20
=B6H=A4=EA=A1G      =20 =A5~=A4=F1=A9=F3=BD=E5=A1A        = =A5H=B1q=A4W=A4]=A1C
xiang4 yue1 wai4 bi3=20 yu2 xian2 yi3 cong2 shang4 ye3=20
=A4E=A4=AD=A1G   =C5=E3=A4=F1=A1A  =20 = =A4=FD=A5=CE=A4T=C5X=A1A        &= nbsp;   =A5=A2=ABe=B8V=A1C=20
jiu3 wu3 xian3 bi3 wang2 yong4 san1 qu1 shi1 qian2 qin2=20
=A8=B6=A4H=A4=A3=BB|=A1A      =A6N=A1C =
yi4 ren2 bu4 jie4 ji2=20
=B6H=A4=EA=A1G       = =C5=E3=A4=F1=A4=A7=A6N=A1A     =20 =A6=EC=A5=BF=A4=A4=A4]=A1C
xiang4 yue1 xian3 bi3 zhi1 ji2 wei4 = zheng4 zhong1 ye3=20 =
=AA=D9=B0f=A8=FA=B6=B6=A1A       &n= bsp; =A5=A2=ABe=B8V=A4]=A1C
she3 ni4=20 qu3 shun4 shi1 qian2 qin2 ye3=20
=A8=B6=A4H=A4=A3=BB|=A1A       = =A4W=A8=CF=A4=A4=A4]=A1C
yi4 ren2 bu4 jie4=20 shang4 shi3 zhong1 ye3=20
=A4W=A4=BB=A1G    =20 = =A4=F1=A4=A7=B5L=AD=BA=A1A        = ; =A4=BF=A1C
shang4 liu4=20 bi3 zhi1 wu2 shou3 xiong1=20
=B6H=A4=EA=A1G     =20 = =A4=F1=A4=A7=B5L=AD=BA=A1A        = ; =B5L=A9=D2=B2=D7=A4]=A1C
xiang4=20 yue1 bi3 zhi1 wu2 shou3 wu2 suo3 zhong1 ye3

=
=20

- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1BD36.E360A550-- ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:07:14 EST From: Frankelmick@aol.com Subject: HEX8: ichingmaster.net Folks, Anyone have any insight into what happened to Alfred Huang's site www.ichingmaster.net A quick visit will show that something obviously went badly wrong with this venture. Best wishes, Mick ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:31:04 +0000 From: Andreas Schoter Subject: HEX8: Annotated Bibliography Hi Folks, I'd like to recommend the following volume: I Ching: An Annotated Bibliogrpahy by Edward Hacker, Steve Moore and Lorraine Patsco; all names we know. It's quite a book, containing a vast collection of references, most of them with some useful commentary. It comes in at 336 pages, divided into 3 sections: i) Books ii) Journal Articles iii) Devices and Equipment It's not cheap, but well worth it for serious students. You might not think it of a bibliography, but it makes for fascinating browsing. All the Best Andreas ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 05:46:00 EST From: Zhouyi64@aol.com Subject: Re: HEX8: Annotated Bibliography In a message dated 3/26/02 6:35:40 PM, andreas@telinco.co.uk writes: << I'd like to recommend the following volume: I Ching: An Annotated Bibliogrpahy by Edward Hacker, Steve Moore and Lorraine Patsco; all names we know. It's quite a book, containing a vast collection of references, most of them with some useful commentary. It comes in at 336 pages, divided into 3 sections: i) Books ii) Journal Articles iii) Devices and Equipment It's not cheap, but well worth it for serious students. You might not think it of a bibliography, but it makes for fascinating browsing. >> Andreas, thank you so much for the kind words. I was going to mention the book once I was sure Amazon and Barnes & Noble were shipping it quickly. (Routledge also sells it from their site.) It is finally done, and we thank all of you who've contributed facts or books or leads or encouragement along the way. You can see an image of the cover at my beta search engine site: http://www.zhouyi.com/base2 (Another mini-announcement) This search engine site configuration is going to replace my I Ching Bookmarks site. I will still leave access to the site as it looks and works now, but the search engine will be the first thing you see when you go to www.zhouyi.com. This search engine will only crawl I Ching sites. So in other words, you don't even have to put "I Ching" into the search field, because all links retrieved will be related to the I Ching. So you can put in "DNA" and you'll get back links for sites that include DNA discussion along with I Ching content. There is also a directory section. I appreciate any help in filling this in. I am planning to go through all my links and sort them into the appropriate sections, but this will take a while and I'll have to go back and forth to it while I take care of regular obligations. I hope you will think of it as our I Ching DMOZ. Thanks again, Lorraine ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 15:47:10 -0800 From: Bradford Hatcher Subject: HEX8: new book Hi all- I've spent the last two days working with a good new book on the Yijing (seconding Andreas' review): I Ching: An Annotated Bibliography Edward Hacker, Steve Moore and Lorraine Patsco London & NY: Routledge, 2002. 350pp hb I'm disabusing myself of the illusion that somehow my 150 volume library of English works on the Yi was slowly nearing completion. Now it's just a pitiful little dwarf of a library and the hunt's back on for 6 new books, six new theses and a dozen new articles- and that's just the must-haves. I'm glad my librarian has a sense of humor about it all. The book is current through about 2000, and so is missing such recent publications as those of Richard Gotshalk; Chang-Soo Chung; Chan Chiu Ming; Andy Baggot; Brennan; Moran & Yu; etc. Beyond that I couldn't count many omissions. The entries were annotated where possible, maybe averaging a third of a page of content for each entry - enough to get an idea whether purchase is worth investigating. The book has three sections: books and theses, articles and papers, software and mixed media, plus an index. This one is worth checking out. Brad PS- this is pretty much English only. If you are looking for a great Chinese language bibliograhy, check out George Fendos' dissertation. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:35:48 +0100 From: Andreas Schoter Subject: HEX8: Wang Bi's Commentary Hi Folks, I'm reading through Wang Bi's commentary on the Yi (as translated by Richard John Lynn) and I've reached a bit that I'm having difficulty making sense of. In "Cursory Remarks on Some Hexagrams" for hexagram 28 (Major Superiority) 011110 (p37) and hexagram 34 (Great Strength) 111100 (p38) he says "yang lines all occupy yin positions". He uses the same phrase on both occasions. The problem that I have is that I do not see that yang lines *ALL* occupy yin positions. Take Major Superiority: the 1st yang line is in a yin position (i.e. the 2nd line of the gua) but the 2nd yang line is in a yang position (i.e. the 3rd line of the gua). Similarly, the yang line in the 5th place. I appreciate that Wang Bi takes a slightly different view to the character of the places because he says that the first and sixth places are not reckoned when considering yin/yang character, but that still leaves the four nuclear lines. In both of these cases (hex 28 and hex 34) there are clearly yang lines in yang places. Yet he makes that statement. Can anyone shed any light on this? Both misprint and oversight in the translation seem unlikely to me. Many Thanks. Andreas ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:39:31 +0100 From: Andreas Schoter Subject: HEX8: Trying to track down a resource Hi Again Folks, Two requests in one sitting! I'm trying to track down the source of a web page article I have been sent on five element theory. I was sent it by Ely Britto, who used to be a member of this list. She seemed to think that it had come from this list. I know attachments are discouraged, so I'll paste the opening few lines. If any one recognizes it and knows where it originally comes from, I'd be grateful. Many Thanks Andreas The Five Energies "The Five Elemental Energies of Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, and Water encompass all the myriad phenomena of nature. It is a paradigm that applies equally to humans." The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine (second century bc) The Five Elemental Energies (wu sing) represent the tangible activities of yin and yang as manifested in the cyclic changes of nature which regulate life on earth. Also known as the Five Movements (wu yun), they define the various stages of transformation in the recurring natural cycles of seasonal change, growth and decay, shifting climatic conditions, sounds, flavors, emotions, and human physiology. Each energy is associated with the natural element which most closely resembles its function and character, and from these elements they take their names. Unlike the Western and other systems of five elements, the Chinese system focuses on energy and its transformations, not on form and substance. The elements thus symbolize the activities of the energies with which they are associated. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:45:34 +0100 From: Hilary Barrett Subject: Re: HEX8: Trying to track down a resource Hi Andreas, http://www.lieske.com/5e-intro.htm (Just grab a distinctive phrase from the original and google it between "quotation marks" - I've never known it to fail!) Thanks for sending me to the site! best wishes, Hilary I Ching with Clarity http://www.onlineClarity.co.uk At 10:39 12/04/02 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Again Folks, > >Two requests in one sitting! I'm trying to track down the source of a web >page article I have been sent on five element theory. I was sent it by >Ely Britto, who used to be a member of this list. She seemed to think >that it had come from this list. > >I know attachments are discouraged, so I'll paste the opening few >lines. If any one recognizes it and knows where it originally comes from, >I'd be grateful. > >Many Thanks > >Andreas > > >The Five Energies >"The Five Elemental Energies of Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, and Water >encompass all the myriad phenomena of nature. It is a paradigm that >applies equally to humans." >The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine >(second century bc) >The Five Elemental Energies (wu sing) represent the tangible activities of >yin and yang as manifested in the cyclic changes of nature which regulate >life on earth. Also known as the Five Movements (wu yun), they define the >various stages of transformation in the recurring natural cycles of >seasonal change, growth and decay, shifting climatic conditions, sounds, >flavors, emotions, and human physiology. Each energy is associated with >the natural element which most closely resembles its function and >character, and from these elements they take their names. Unlike the >Western and other systems of five elements, the Chinese system focuses on >energy and its transformations, not on form and substance. The elements >thus symbolize the activities of the energies with which they are associated. > > > >===== >To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org >from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:18:02 +0200 From: "Robert Matusan - Boyler" Subject: HEX8: Re: Wang Bi's Commentary Hi Andreas, > I'm reading through Wang Bi's commentary on the Yi (as translated by > Richard John Lynn) and I've reached a bit that I'm having difficulty making > sense of. In "Cursory Remarks on Some Hexagrams" for hexagram 28 (Major > Superiority) 011110 (p37) and hexagram 34 (Great Strength) 111100 (p38) he > says "yang lines all occupy yin positions". He uses the same phrase on > both occasions. > > The problem that I have is that I do not see that yang lines *ALL* occupy > yin positions. Take Major Superiority: the 1st yang line is in a yin > position (i.e. the 2nd line of the gua) but the 2nd yang line is in a yang > position (i.e. the 3rd line of the gua). Similarly, the yang line in the > 5th place. > > I appreciate that Wang Bi takes a slightly different view to the character > of the places because he says that the first and sixth places are not > reckoned when considering yin/yang character, but that still leaves the > four nuclear lines. In both of these cases (hex 28 and hex 34) there are > clearly yang lines in yang places. Yet he makes that statement. > > Can anyone shed any light on this? Both misprint and oversight in the > translation seem unlikely to me. If we disregard possibility of misprint and/or oversight (although there are some typos in the book), I should say that a possible explanation is in the context of inside/outside relationship of yin and yang in the hexagrams as a whole, with slightly different perspective in each case, but still consistent with the theory. Proper place of yin is inside, and proper place of yang is outside. In first case (gua 28) *all* yang lines are inside (where yin lines should be) of the hexagram. (Outer lines are at bottom and at top of the hexagram.) Compare it with gua 62. Similar case (but with different perspective) is with gua 34, where *all* yang lines are also inside (according to "rule" that lower trigram is inside, and upper trigram is outside), but seen as lines not as trigrams. So *all* yang lines are inside of the hexagram while *all* yin lines are outside (at the top of the hexagram). I think this could be an explanation, but I'd like to hear other opinions too. Wansui! Boyler ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:40:50 -0400 From: Subject: HEX8: Qi and energy Andreas' question, citing the following passage, raised a question for me that I've been meaning to ask all of you. < Unlike the Western and other systems of five elements, the Chinese system focuses on energy and its transformations, not on form and substance. The elements thus symbolize the activities of the energies with which they are associated.> I just have one particular aspect to ask about. It seems fairly clear to me that the word "energy" in the above passage translates the Chinese word, "qi." My question is, does the equation of qi with energy satisfy you? In short, is qi energy? And is the English word energy an adequate or even acceptable cognate of qi? Ken Rose ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:23:49 -0400 From: Subject: Re: HEX8: Wang Bi's Commentary Andreas, Can anyone shed any light on this? Both misprint and oversight in the translation seem unlikely to me. I sincerely doubt that this will shed any light, but perhaps it can make the darkness more entertaining. The collation of texts known generally as the Taijiquan Classics of the famous boxing clan, the Yangs, contains a text attributed to the legendary monk and putative founder of taiji, Zhang San Feng. The following is from this text. Here I quote the translation by Benjamin Lo, Martin Inn, Susan Foe, and Robert Amacker that can be found in The Essence of T'ai Chi Ch'uan: The Literary Tradition, published by North Atlantic in 1985. Insubstantial and substantial should be clearly differentiated. One place has insubstantiality and substantiality; every place has the same insubstantiality and substantiality. In case it's not clear, the terms "insubstantial" and "substantial" are translations of the Chinese pair, xu and shi. In the parlance of taijiquan, these are frequent emblems of yin and yang. Ken ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:40:24 +0100 From: Andreas Schoter Subject: Re: HEX8: Re: Wang Bi's Commentary At 13:18 2002-04-12 +0200, Robert Matusan - Boyler wrote: > > I'm reading through Wang Bi's commentary on the Yi (as translated by > > Richard John Lynn) and I've reached a bit that I'm having difficulty making > > sense of. In "Cursory Remarks on Some Hexagrams" for hexagram 28 (Major > > Superiority) 011110 (p37) and hexagram 34 (Great Strength) 111100 (p38) he > > says "yang lines all occupy yin positions". He uses the same phrase on > > both occasions. > > > > The problem that I have is that I do not see that yang lines *ALL* occupy > > yin positions. Take Major Superiority: the 1st yang line is in a yin > > position (i.e. the 2nd line of the gua) but the 2nd yang line is in a yang > > position (i.e. the 3rd line of the gua). Similarly, the yang line in the > > 5th place. > >Proper place of yin is inside, and proper place of yang is outside. In first >case (gua 28) *all* yang lines are inside (where yin lines should be) of the >hexagram. (Outer lines are at bottom and at top of the hexagram.) Compare it >with gua 62. OK, that makes sense, I'll go with that. Given the great number of footnotes in the text I'm surprised that no explanation is offered. I'll go back and read it again and see if it makes sense. Thanks Andreas ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:28:56 +0100 From: Andreas Schoter Subject: Re: HEX8: Qi and energy Off topic, I guess, but: At 11:40 2002-04-12 -0400, Ken Rose wrote: >In short, is qi energy? And is the English >word energy an adequate or even acceptable >cognate of qi? From a martial arts context, qi is whatever connects yi (intent) to jing (expressed power). Perhaps the problem with trying to find a single definition of the word "qi" is that it is used in different ways in different contexts. I've heard acupuncturists who say that qi, used in the medical sense is different from qi used in a martial sense. I don't know about that, but it certainly does seem to be used to cover a lot of conceptual territory. In that case, it is similar to the English word "energy" which has a similarly wide usage. Andreas ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:22:52 +0100 From: Andreas Schoter Subject: Re: HEX8: Trying to track down a resource Hilary, At 11:45 2002-04-12 +0100, you wrote: >http://www.lieske.com/5e-intro.htm > >(Just grab a distinctive phrase from the original and google it between >"quotation marks" - I've never known it to fail!) Many Thanks - I should have thought of that myself...! Andreas ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:57:26 EDT From: Aglie@aol.com Subject: Re: HEX8: Qi and energy - --part1_8f.1a4dd8fa.29e99346_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To ask if qi is energy is to impose the concept of Western physics in which energy and matter are clearly separated. Even after Einstein they are different though one can be converted to the other, at least matter to energy. Qi is sometimes material, sometimes purely energy. And given that the concept is 2,000 years old, we should not expect it to have a invariant meaning. I think what makes it useful to Westerners, certainly to me, is that it gives a term for the subjective experience of energy both within and as we sense it in others. Western science and even psychology have no concepts for this sort of energy. Freud tried to reduce it to sexuality but qi is more than this. Yin/yang and wu xing as terms indicate that this sort of energy can have different qualities. It is interesting that yin/yang is now part of our culture while the five phases is not and seems rather artificial. Anyone else have comments. Best, Geoffrey In a message dated 4/13/2002 6:41:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, andreas@telinco.co.uk writes: > > Off topic, I guess, but: > > At 11:40 2002-04-12 -0400, Ken Rose wrote: > >In short, is qi energy? And is the English > >word energy an adequate or even acceptable > >cognate of qi? > > From a martial arts context, qi is whatever connects yi (intent) to jing > (expressed power). > > Perhaps the problem with trying to find a single definition of the word > "qi" is that it is used in different ways in different contexts. I've > heard acupuncturists who say that qi, used in the medical sense is > different from qi used in a martial sense. I don't know about that, but it > > certainly does seem to be used to cover a lot of conceptual territory. In > that case, it is similar to the English word "energy" which has a similarly > > wide usage. > > Andreas > > > > - --part1_8f.1a4dd8fa.29e99346_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To ask if qi is energy is to impose the concept of Western physics in which energy and matter are clearly separated. Even after Einstein they are different though one can be converted to the other, at least matter to energy.
Qi is sometimes material, sometimes purely energy. And given that the concept is 2,000 years old, we should not expect it to have a invariant meaning.
I think what makes it useful to Westerners, certainly to me, is that it gives a term for the subjective experience of energy both within and as we sense it in others. Western science and even psychology have no concepts for this sort of energy. Freud tried to reduce it to sexuality but qi is more than this.
Yin/yang and wu xing as terms indicate that this sort of energy can have different qualities. It is interesting that yin/yang is now part of our culture while the five phases is not and seems rather artificial.
Anyone else have comments.
Best,
Geoffrey

In a message dated 4/13/2002 6:41:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, andreas@telinco.co.uk writes:

Off topic, I guess, but:

At 11:40 2002-04-12 -0400, Ken Rose wrote:
>In short, is qi energy? And is the English
>word energy an adequate or even acceptable
>cognate of qi?

>From a martial arts context, qi is whatever connects yi (intent) to jing
(expressed power).

Perhaps the problem with trying to find a single definition of the word
"qi" is that it is used in different ways in different contexts. I've
heard acupuncturists who say that qi, used in the medical sense is
different from qi used in a martial sense. I don't know about that, but it
certainly does seem to be used to cover a lot of conceptual territory. In
that case, it is similar to the English word "energy" which has a similarly
wide usage.

Andreas

- --part1_8f.1a4dd8fa.29e99346_boundary-- ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ------------------------------ End of hexagram-8-digest V1 #206 ********************************