From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Fri Dec 1 21:30:42 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23136 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 21:30:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23131 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 21:30:41 -0500 Received: from SilasDrone (ip7.albuquerque3.nm.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.68.7]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA18506 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 18:31:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002601c05c08$4283c6c0$07441d26@SilasDrone> From: "SilasFlood" To: Subject: HEX8: boy do I know how to clear a room Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 19:33:23 -0700 Organization: silas.web.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C05BCD.91B119E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C05BCD.91B119E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ahh...sweet timing as sure as the fruit ripening on the vine heh heh ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C05BCD.91B119E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
ahh...sweet timing
as sure as the fruit ripening on the vine
heh heh
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C05BCD.91B119E0-- ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Sat Dec 2 14:59:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19645 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:59:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19640 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:59:54 -0500 Received: from heybo002wxs ([195.121.218.217]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G4YI8700.QWP for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 21:00:07 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c05c9a$5b7fe040$d9da79c3@nl> From: "Postmaster AHeyboer" To: "hexagram-8 @apocalypse.org" Subject: HEX8: Language thread Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 20:59:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org I guess the language thread is still lying around somewhere, even when everybody withdrew to wintersleep? In hex.61, line 1, the first character is yu, which is (among other meanings) a mythical white tiger with black spots who only appeared when the state was ruled in sincerity and benevolence. It did not kill living things. The white tiger Yu is also a type of Wen Wang (king Wen). In hex.3.3 this character is used as precaution or forester. Here in 61.1 by W-B as 'being prepared'. Rutt says: 'sacrifice of repose' (and in Mathews' dict. 7648, about this sacrifice: offered on the day of the funeral when the mourners went home) More animals in this line (61.1): a character which means 'this, someone else, more' and in W-B 'secret designs' is actually a drawing of a snake. And the last character, in W-B 'quiet' (together with not: disquieting) is a swallow. This one is nowadays still used as swallow (the bird, but like in English also in the sense of gulp) 'The white Yu-tiger: auspicious. If there is a snake, there are no swallows'. The meaning of the sentence does not fundamentally change: if there are secret dangers, like invisible snakes, the birds don't sing, so listen and you will know if there is danger. I like it more this way. LiSe Book of the moon www.aheyboer.com webmaster@aheyboer.com ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Sat Dec 2 16:31:23 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28986 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 16:31:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from scooby.lineone.net (doggy.lineone.net [194.75.152.224]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28981 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 16:31:22 -0500 Received: from q8w9y0 (host212-140-49-71.btinternet.com [212.140.49.71]) by scooby.lineone.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA15474 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 21:31:14 GMT Message-ID: <001201c05ca7$e42815e0$45affea9@q8w9y0> From: "Hilary Barrett" To: References: <001501c05c9a$5b7fe040$d9da79c3@nl> Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 21:34:20 -0000 Organization: Clarity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hello LiSe (and anyone else still awake), (emerging blearily and briefly from hibernation myself) This is completely fascinating - where did you find out about the tiger? Keep it coming, and I might just stay awake :-) Also - not to put too fine a point on it - how can we be sure about these things? I know that begs a lot of questions, and I'm very happy indeed with multiple meanings and ambiguity, but at the same time I'd hate to find myself basing an interpretation on a mix-up/ mistake about character derivations. How to decide what to go with? Best wishes, Hilary ----- Original Message ----- From: Postmaster AHeyboer To: hexagram-8 @apocalypse.org Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 7:59 PM Subject: HEX8: Language thread > I guess the language thread is still lying around somewhere, even when everybody withdrew to wintersleep? > > In hex.61, line 1, the first character is yu, which is (among other meanings) a mythical white tiger with black spots who only > appeared when the state was ruled in sincerity and benevolence. It did not kill living things. The white tiger Yu is also a type of > Wen Wang (king Wen). > > In hex.3.3 this character is used as precaution or forester. Here in 61.1 by W-B as 'being prepared'. Rutt says: 'sacrifice of > repose' (and in Mathews' dict. 7648, about this sacrifice: offered on the day of the funeral when the mourners went home) > > More animals in this line (61.1): a character which means 'this, someone else, more' and in W-B 'secret designs' is actually a > drawing of a snake. And the last character, in W-B 'quiet' (together with not: disquieting) is a swallow. This one is nowadays still > used as swallow (the bird, but like in English also in the sense of gulp) > 'The white Yu-tiger: auspicious. If there is a snake, there are no swallows'. The meaning of the sentence does not fundamentally > change: if there are secret dangers, like invisible snakes, the birds don't sing, so listen and you will know if there is danger. > > I like it more this way. > > LiSe > Book of the moon > www.aheyboer.com > webmaster@aheyboer.com > > > > ===== > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. > ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Sat Dec 2 19:51:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15446 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 19:51:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from imo-r19.mail.aol.com (imo-r19.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.73]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15441 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 19:51:05 -0500 From: FKegan@aol.com Received: from FKegan@aol.com by imo-r19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id h.54.cb0aec1 (3932) for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 19:51:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <54.cb0aec1.275af2fa@aol.com> Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 19:51:06 EST Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_54.cb0aec1.275af2fa_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: Unknown sub 148 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org --part1_54.cb0aec1.275af2fa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, The question of what Chinese ideograms to trust and which are just errors runs through all translation -- ultimately all verbal imagery is suspect but it all gives rise to useful speculation. Gia-Fu translated line one of hex 61 as "Get into your body. Luck. If you are disturbed inside you can't meditate" This highlights the mythical aspect of the White Tiger ideogram. and like the illustrations put up on the wall in a first class in Zen notes that it is not a tiger, snake or birds referred to but only images of these creatures and their expected behavior in stories that is involved. In terms of the general structure of the sequence of the Yi. Hexagram 61 is part of the final four hexagrams, outside the system of 6 sets of 10 and by its structure taken to represent the Inner. Such a position would make an interpretation in terms of meditation more useful than the more objective one of staying indoors and worrying about what ulterior motives are afoot. Frank --part1_54.cb0aec1.275af2fa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All,
   The question of what Chinese ideograms to trust and which are just errors
runs through all translation -- ultimately all verbal imagery is suspect but
it all gives rise to useful speculation.
   Gia-Fu translated line one of hex 61 as "Get into your body. Luck. If you
are disturbed inside you can't meditate"
  This highlights the mythical aspect of the White Tiger ideogram. and like
the illustrations put up on the wall in a first class in Zen notes that it is
not a tiger, snake or birds referred to but only images of these creatures
and their expected behavior in stories that is involved.
    In terms of the general structure of the sequence of the Yi. Hexagram 61
is part of the final four hexagrams, outside the system of 6 sets of 10 and
by its structure taken to represent the Inner. Such a position would make an
interpretation in terms of meditation more useful than the more objective one
of staying indoors and worrying about what ulterior motives are afoot.
Frank --part1_54.cb0aec1.275af2fa_boundary-- ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Sun Dec 3 10:45:47 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25685 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 10:45:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25680 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 10:45:46 -0500 Received: from heybo002wxs ([195.121.218.196]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G5015C00.1B0 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:46:24 +0100 Message-ID: <003c01c05d40$19a4e160$c4da79c3@nl> From: "Postmaster AHeyboer" To: "hexagram-8 @apocalypse.org" References: <54.cb0aec1.275af2fa@aol.com> Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:45:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hi Hilary and Frank, I don't think the 'right' translation for a character does exist. Often a satisfactory one can be found, and in some cases there is an English word which covers all the meanings, but characters are closer to feelings or images, and every English word is too exact. What I personally do, is putting all the translations I can find side by side, and then I try to 'taste' what is the common feature. The Yu-tiger and precaution and the forester are close together. All are directed towards making things good and safe. The tiger is a sign of it, the precaution an action, the forester a means. When the Yu tiger is running around - or when all precautions have been taken - or when one has a good forester - then all will be OK. But the line says: listen nevertheless to the little signs which warn you, don't blindly rely on tigers or foresters, but use your own intuition as well. 'This' and 'snake' also have a common taste. The snake is invisible in the grass, until the moment you see it, point at it and call to everyone 'HERE - danger!' Swallow and quiet taste like a happy mood: ever heard a group of swallows chatter, or even one single swallow. And here in the West too, a swallow is a sign of luck. A snake, no swallows means the same as 'secret designs, disquieting', with one difference: I understand the saying better because it covers many more circumstances, it is less narrowly defined. I get the meanings from the Far East Chin-E dict., Mathews' C-E dict., Wenlin (which is de Francis), and the old characters from Karlgren (GSR) and Wang HongYuan. There are more books I use as references, like Kunst, Shaugnessy, Lynn, Rutt, sometimes Cleary. There are other good ones, but I don't know how much literary freedom they take. I use them as idea-makers, often they open other windows. And then there is Schuessler, who gives many examples and often a very good idea how a character was used in old texts. Because I think the Yi is very old. I know it has been written down around 800 BC, but that was the oldest version that survived. There must have been older ones. In every era people changed things, added stories of their own time and left out what was not commonly understood anymore. And also gave meanings to characters according to their own time. Of course there are probably errors too, but we don't know which ones, so I simply take all as it is and try to make sense of it. Many translators make 'emandations' which I don't like at all. I also know that sinologists don't like the pulling apart of characters, but when I read what they all say 'this part is ONLY the sound and has no meaning' I wonder what they call a language. A language IS sound, and some people can write it, but innumerable others have only the sound for meaning. So my opinion is that exactly this part, 'only the sound', is the most important part. And the part which defines the meaning is 'only' specifying. Is this translation of GiaFu Feng still available anywhere? What I have seen of it makes me certainly curious. Very good note in the Zen class. I think it applies to every single sentence in the Yi. At least for me. I never derive any fact from an answer, but always a kind of allegory which gives me ideas for what could be done in the situation at hand (when I cast a hex or line). >From Hilary: Also - not to put too fine a point on it - how can we be sure about these things? I know that begs a lot of questions, and I'm very happy indeed with multiple meanings and ambiguity, but at the same time I'd hate to find myself basing an interpretation on a mix-up/ mistake about character derivations. How to decide what to go with? I guess the only way is with a pile of dictionaries, or else with a pile of serious translations, comparing them. Knowing the background of a translation helps a lot. W-B is 'confucian', Kunst is looking for old origins. There was an excellent mail from Geoffrey (aglie, 10-21-00) about Rutt, and about backgrounds. LiSe Book of the moon www.aheyboer.com postmaster@aheyboer.com ----- Original Message ----- From: FKegan@aol.com To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 1:51 AM Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread Hi All, The question of what Chinese ideograms to trust and which are just errors runs through all translation -- ultimately all verbal imagery is suspect but it all gives rise to useful speculation. Gia-Fu translated line one of hex 61 as "Get into your body. Luck. If you are disturbed inside you can't meditate" This highlights the mythical aspect of the White Tiger ideogram. and like the illustrations put up on the wall in a first class in Zen notes that it is not a tiger, snake or birds referred to but only images of these creatures and their expected behavior in stories that is involved. In terms of the general structure of the sequence of the Yi. Hexagram 61 is part of the final four hexagrams, outside the system of 6 sets of 10 and by its structure taken to represent the Inner. Such a position would make an interpretation in terms of meditation more useful than the more objective one of staying indoors and worrying about what ulterior motives are afoot. Frank ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Sun Dec 3 18:34:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09464 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:34:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09458 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:34:58 -0500 From: FKegan@aol.com Received: from FKegan@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id h.85.3b91f93 (16343) for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:35:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <85.3b91f93.275c32af@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:35:11 EST Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_85.3b91f93.275c32af_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: Unknown sub 148 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org --part1_85.3b91f93.275c32af_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/3/2000 7:48:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, postmaster@aheyboer.com writes: > Is this translation of GiaFu Feng still available anywhere? What I have seen > of it makes me certainly curious. > > Hi Lise, There are very few copies of the Gia-Fu text we wrote together in 1974. Hopefully one of them will get digitalized and be available on the web. Last year I was finally able to register the copyright to it. I am told that Gia-Fu worked on his translation until his death in 1988 and some version of his later work was published in New Zealand. Frank --part1_85.3b91f93.275c32af_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/3/2000 7:48:56 AM Pacific Standard Time,
postmaster@aheyboer.com writes:


Is this translation of GiaFu Feng still available anywhere? What I have seen
of it makes me certainly curious.



Hi Lise,
     There are very few copies of the Gia-Fu text we wrote together in 1974.
Hopefully one of them will get digitalized  and be available on the web. Last
year I was finally able to register the copyright to it. I am told that
Gia-Fu worked on his translation until his death in 1988 and some version of
his later work was published in New Zealand.
Frank --part1_85.3b91f93.275c32af_boundary-- ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Sun Dec 3 21:25:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25792 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:25:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from mail.independence.net (mail.independence.net [204.144.177.1]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA25786 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:25:54 -0500 Received: (qmail 28761 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 02:26:08 -0000 Received: from ridgway416.independence.net (HELO independence.net) (204.144.177.104) by mail.independence.net with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 02:26:08 -0000 Message-ID: <3A2B009B.18EDD1FC@independence.net> Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 19:25:31 -0700 From: bradford X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,zh-TW,zh MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread References: <85.3b91f93.275c32af@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hi Lise, RE: >In a message dated 12/3/2000 7:48:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, >postmaster@aheyboer.com writes: >Is this translation of GiaFu Feng still available anywhere? What I have seen > of it makes me certainly curious. If used books are out there they're probably on one of these. A quick search on the first one alone turned up several copies. http://www.bibliofind.com/ http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/IList http://www.bookfinder.com/ http://www.trussel.com/f_books.htm These can be costly links to bookmark Happy serching Bradford ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Mon Dec 4 04:40:34 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA03698 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 04:40:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from sttlpop3.sttl.uswest.net (mail.sttl.uswest.net [206.81.192.3]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA03693 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 04:40:33 -0500 Received: (qmail 10559 invoked by alias); 4 Dec 2000 09:41:17 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org@fixme Received: (qmail 10543 invoked by uid 0); 4 Dec 2000 09:41:16 -0000 Received: from moneypenny.ludism.org (HELO ?63.225.161.89?) (63.225.161.89) by mail.sttl.uswest.net with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 09:41:16 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 01:41:11 -0800 To: Hexagram-8 list From: Ron Hale-Evans Subject: HEX8: READ ME: Why your posts aren't appearing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hi, list admin Ron here. Let me clear something up. When you post a message to Hexagram-8, you will pretty much *always* receive a copy yourself of the message you posted. If you don't receive a copy yourself, it's almost always because the post didn't go through. Sometimes when a post doesn't go through, people try to post over and over again. What this results in is post after failed post bouncing to my personal mailbox. I get about ten to twelve failed posts in my mailbox every week. Needless to say, I don't have time to forward these posts to the people who bounced them and explain what's wrong. People sometimes write me and ask why their posts aren't appearing on Hexagram-8. They often put forth theories like "maybe I'm not 'really' subscribed." Again, the test is simple: if you're getting email from Hexagram-8, you're probably *really* subscribed. What it boils down to is this: if you want your posts to go through to Hexagram-8, only send email to the list from the email address you have subscribed. For example, I have multiple email accounts. I am writing from rwhe@apocalypse.org. This is the address I have subscribed to Hexagram-8. I have another email account, rwhe@ludism.org, that I have not subscribed. If I tried to send email to Hexagram-8 from this account, it would bounce, and no one would see it. It's all fairly straightforward. Tonight, for example, I got at least two bounced posts from someone with two accounts subscribed already, posting from a third account that is not subscribed. I have *hundreds* of bounced posts to Hexagram-8 going back *years*, posts that no one but me has ever seen. Maybe if people are interested, I'll make them available. Meanwhile, it's a confounded nuisance, and I wish people would understand the fact that you can only post from a subscribed account. The reason the list is set up this way is that the other way to set it up, which is to allow *any* email address to post, would allow spammers and other unscrupulous people to post and pollute the list. I get a fair number of bounced spam messages in my in box too. Not as many as I used to, though; maybe word is getting around that spamming Hexagram-8 just doesn't work. By the way, if you're interested in seeing what accounts you have subscribed, you can just send the command "who hexagram-8" alone in the body of an email message to majordomo@apocalypse.org. This will send you a list of all subscribers. There's one catch: you have to do it from a subscribed account. Well, if your command is rejected, at least you'll know *that* account isn't subscribed. In fact, just this once I will append a list of the current subscribers so everyone can see for themselves what accounts they have subscribed. I am first going to append a list of the Hexagram-8 list rules (few and easy to follow). People have been falling down on #4 lately (no HTML or other encoding; plain text only), so let's be careful out there, please. Happy holidays... Ron ***** HEXAGRAM-8 LIST RULES 1. No spamming. 2. No flaming. 3. No binary attachments. 4. No HTML or other encoding; plain text only. 5. Avoid off-topic posts as much as possible. 6. Breaking rules 1 through 4 (not 5) may result in immediate unsubscription. ***** Members of list 'hexagram-8': jwolcott@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu seilerjp@telerama.lm.com Fule@aol.com 100041.2443@CompuServe.COM autorbis@aol.com r.posthumus@pi.net dean@visi.com rachid@openlink.com.br langley@pacbell.net kirk@mcelhearn.com alexw@goplay.com croaker@coqui.net silasflood@sprintmail.com hkclam@netvigator.com utan@wyrd.org landrade@voicenet.com dautunjp@worldnet.fr rbutler@iris.edu Danny.vandenberghe@ping.be danu@monitor.net ian.ingram@ukonline.co.uk bernhard@cancun.com rony@staff.texas.net wolfsen@mail.eclipse.net chh@crcom.net Ian@tirnanog.org steve@fortstudy.win-uk.net jorgevul@newsite.com.br akroy@to.imag.net walts@dorsai.org ysyow@nw.com.au stevshar@globalnet.co.uk dlesper@connect.ab.ca Aglie@aol.com valnicau@tn.village.it SaadEYKI@aol.com Zhouyi64@aol.com greenway@hadyai.loxinfo.co.th rwhe@eudoramail.com tsaib@novastar.com Fergust@aol.com yulong@mindspring.com wangc@skate.org nakash@geo.net.ge faye@ilchester.freeuk.com RCol547987@aol.com KingStar@delemme.com ROMANOS@garm.freeserve.co.uk rds@pop.ihug.co.nz kealoha@hula.net dfitz@newgrange.org olganog@zaz.com.br ghedgesp@Taylor.k12.ky.us cabeal@efn.org leger@gte.net cierra@uvic.ca davidwriter@hotmail.com cgait@condor.nrl.navy.mil andreas@telinco.co.uk cjgait@yahoo.com kayntwhyle@uswest.net carryfar@prodigy.net David_Briggs@computrition.com nasusr@concentric.net Marianne.Goeppel@debitel.net tomcolli@loa.com FKegan@aol.com edgar@perfekt.perfekt.net jpadua@netcom.ca sbruder@cfl.rr.com ollyfigg@hotmail.com yeejing1@gte.net Frankelmick@aol.com hj-barrett@lineone.net lowrys6@home.com bradford@independence.net kpennak@mail.one.net cvanderwal@home.nl boyler@usa.net rsussan@yahoo.com hungryghost1@juno.com mlutzeier@planet-interkom.de duke_1138@yahoo.com bshunter@jps.net billnkq@erols.com harmen.mesker@wanadoo.nl r2d2@tecmina.com ricardo@zenite.inf.br keravus@usa.net ljenos@tns.net jaakko.virtala@pp.fimnet.fi rds@ihug.co.nz esmith1@twcny.rr.com rwhe@apocalypse.org mo4@worldnet.att.net yijing@wanadoo.nl joaquim.rola@sympatico.ca valda@pop.teleweb.pt postmaster@aheyboer.com tcf@warwick.net 100 subscribers -- Ron's Info Closet: Center for Ludic Synergy, Kennexions Glass Bead Game, Positive Revolution FAQ, Hexagram-8 I Ching Mailing List, and links... Ron Hale-Evans ... rwhe@ludism.org ... Further up and further in! fnord ... rwhe@apocalypse.org ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Tue Dec 5 14:02:14 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03603 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:02:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.4]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03596 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:02:13 -0500 From: Aglie@aol.com Received: from Aglie@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id h.ab.3dc37e4 (24897) for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:02:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:02:25 EST Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 123 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org LeSe writes: << covers many more circumstances, it is less narrowly defined. I get the meanings from the Far East Chin-E dict., Mathews' C-E dict., Wenlin (which is de Francis), and the old characters from Karlgren (GSR) and Wang HongYuan. There are more books I use as references, like Kunst, Shaugnessy, Lynn, Rutt, sometimes Cleary. >>LeSe's recent post was quite helpful to me. I wonder if LeSe or others can say more about how they use these dictionaries. Are most of the early Zhou (EZ) characters in Mathews? I find Schuessler's dictionary extremely irritating because he subscribes to the extreme form of the ideology that the real language is spoken rather than written. To me, langauge is both. He says his dictionary is a dictionary of words and not graphs and it is arranged alphabetically by pinyin. He omits characters for which meaning is known but sound is not. (One could ask how sure we can be about how EZ was pronounced.) To me this means that if we find a character we do not recognize, we must first look it up in a dictionary with a radical index, then get the pinyin (not given in older dictionaries), then find it in Schuessler. What use is a dictionary of a spoken language which has not been spoken for more than 2,000 years? There may be some Chinese immortals still alive from the Zhou but I am not one of them. If I were, I would not need a dictionary or the I Ching for that matter. I'm venting my frustration but also asking if others have found a way to make this dictionary useful. May all sentient beings be happy! Geoffrey ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Tue Dec 5 21:06:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24145 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:06:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from scooby.lineone.net (doggy.lineone.net [194.75.152.224]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24140 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:06:25 -0500 Received: from q8w9y0 (host212-140-45-15.btinternet.com [212.140.45.15]) by scooby.lineone.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA22787 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 02:06:42 GMT Message-ID: <002101c05f29$e8e20bc0$45affea9@q8w9y0> From: "Hilary Barrett" To: References: Subject: Re: HEX8: READ ME: Why your posts aren't appearing Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 02:11:12 -0000 Organization: Clarity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hi Ron, First and most important, thank you for maintaining the list! :-) Small point: I'm afraid it doesn't always work quite as smoothly as one would hope. There have been occasions when messages I sent to hexagram-8 didn't appear, and they were, I promise, sent from the subscribed address. Just found two in the 'Sent' folder: 5th and 6th Nov, entitled 'Help...', also sent to the right address (I've heard that helps, too), and in text format. Technology has moods - makes life so much more interesting than if it just worked all the time:-). Maybe when it's in this particular mood it sends things to you but not the list. (So maybe fewer of the members are half-witted than it would appear at first? See recent correspondence on idiots. BTW, I have a haunting worry about books 'for complete idiots': what if I buy one and can't understand it?) All best wishes, Hilary ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Hale-Evans To: Hexagram-8 list Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 9:41 AM Subject: HEX8: READ ME: Why your posts aren't appearing > Hi, list admin Ron here. Let me clear something up. > > When you post a message to Hexagram-8, you will pretty much *always* > receive a copy yourself of the message you posted. If you don't > receive a copy yourself, it's almost always because the post didn't > go through. > > Sometimes when a post doesn't go through, people try to post over and > over again. What this results in is post after failed post bouncing > to my personal mailbox. I get about ten to twelve failed posts in my > mailbox every week. Needless to say, I don't have time to forward > these posts to the people who bounced them and explain what's wrong. > > People sometimes write me and ask why their posts aren't appearing on > Hexagram-8. They often put forth theories like "maybe I'm not > 'really' subscribed." Again, the test is simple: if you're getting > email from Hexagram-8, you're probably *really* subscribed. > > What it boils down to is this: if you want your posts to go through > to Hexagram-8, only send email to the list from the email address you > have subscribed. For example, I have multiple email accounts. I am > writing from rwhe@apocalypse.org. This is the address I have > subscribed to Hexagram-8. I have another email account, > rwhe@ludism.org, that I have not subscribed. If I tried to send email > to Hexagram-8 from this account, it would bounce, and no one would > see it. It's all fairly straightforward. > > Tonight, for example, I got at least two bounced posts from someone > with two accounts subscribed already, posting from a third account > that is not subscribed. I have *hundreds* of bounced posts to > Hexagram-8 going back *years*, posts that no one but me has ever > seen. Maybe if people are interested, I'll make them available. > Meanwhile, it's a confounded nuisance, and I wish people would > understand the fact that you can only post from a subscribed account. > > The reason the list is set up this way is that the other way to set > it up, which is to allow *any* email address to post, would allow > spammers and other unscrupulous people to post and pollute the list. > I get a fair number of bounced spam messages in my in box too. Not as > many as I used to, though; maybe word is getting around that spamming > Hexagram-8 just doesn't work. > > By the way, if you're interested in seeing what accounts you have > subscribed, you can just send the command "who hexagram-8" alone in > the body of an email message to majordomo@apocalypse.org. This will > send you a list of all subscribers. There's one catch: you have to do > it from a subscribed account. Well, if your command is rejected, at > least you'll know *that* account isn't subscribed. > > In fact, just this once I will append a list of the current > subscribers so everyone can see for themselves what accounts they > have subscribed. I am first going to append a list of the Hexagram-8 > list rules (few and easy to follow). People have been falling down on > #4 lately (no HTML or other encoding; plain text only), so let's be > careful out there, please. > > Happy holidays... > > Ron > > ***** > > HEXAGRAM-8 LIST RULES > > 1. No spamming. > 2. No flaming. > 3. No binary attachments. > 4. No HTML or other encoding; plain text only. > 5. Avoid off-topic posts as much as possible. > 6. Breaking rules 1 through 4 (not 5) may result in immediate unsubscription. > > ***** > > Members of list 'hexagram-8': > > jwolcott@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu > seilerjp@telerama.lm.com > Fule@aol.com > 100041.2443@CompuServe.COM > autorbis@aol.com > r.posthumus@pi.net > dean@visi.com > rachid@openlink.com.br > langley@pacbell.net > kirk@mcelhearn.com > alexw@goplay.com > croaker@coqui.net > silasflood@sprintmail.com > hkclam@netvigator.com > utan@wyrd.org > landrade@voicenet.com > dautunjp@worldnet.fr > rbutler@iris.edu > Danny.vandenberghe@ping.be > danu@monitor.net > ian.ingram@ukonline.co.uk > bernhard@cancun.com > rony@staff.texas.net > wolfsen@mail.eclipse.net > chh@crcom.net > Ian@tirnanog.org > steve@fortstudy.win-uk.net > jorgevul@newsite.com.br > akroy@to.imag.net > walts@dorsai.org > ysyow@nw.com.au > stevshar@globalnet.co.uk > dlesper@connect.ab.ca > Aglie@aol.com > valnicau@tn.village.it > SaadEYKI@aol.com > Zhouyi64@aol.com > greenway@hadyai.loxinfo.co.th > rwhe@eudoramail.com > tsaib@novastar.com > Fergust@aol.com > yulong@mindspring.com > wangc@skate.org > nakash@geo.net.ge > faye@ilchester.freeuk.com > RCol547987@aol.com > KingStar@delemme.com > ROMANOS@garm.freeserve.co.uk > rds@pop.ihug.co.nz > kealoha@hula.net > dfitz@newgrange.org > olganog@zaz.com.br > ghedgesp@Taylor.k12.ky.us > cabeal@efn.org > leger@gte.net > cierra@uvic.ca > davidwriter@hotmail.com > cgait@condor.nrl.navy.mil > andreas@telinco.co.uk > cjgait@yahoo.com > kayntwhyle@uswest.net > carryfar@prodigy.net > David_Briggs@computrition.com > nasusr@concentric.net > Marianne.Goeppel@debitel.net > tomcolli@loa.com > FKegan@aol.com > edgar@perfekt.perfekt.net > jpadua@netcom.ca > sbruder@cfl.rr.com > ollyfigg@hotmail.com > yeejing1@gte.net > Frankelmick@aol.com > hj-barrett@lineone.net > lowrys6@home.com > bradford@independence.net > kpennak@mail.one.net > cvanderwal@home.nl > boyler@usa.net > rsussan@yahoo.com > hungryghost1@juno.com > mlutzeier@planet-interkom.de > duke_1138@yahoo.com > bshunter@jps.net > billnkq@erols.com > harmen.mesker@wanadoo.nl > r2d2@tecmina.com > ricardo@zenite.inf.br > keravus@usa.net > ljenos@tns.net > jaakko.virtala@pp.fimnet.fi > rds@ihug.co.nz > esmith1@twcny.rr.com > rwhe@apocalypse.org > mo4@worldnet.att.net > yijing@wanadoo.nl > joaquim.rola@sympatico.ca > valda@pop.teleweb.pt > postmaster@aheyboer.com > tcf@warwick.net > > 100 subscribers > > > > > > -- > Ron's Info Closet: Center for Ludic Synergy, Kennexions Glass Bead Game, > Positive Revolution FAQ, Hexagram-8 I Ching Mailing List, and links... > Ron Hale-Evans ... > rwhe@ludism.org ... Further up and further in! fnord ... rwhe@apocalypse.org > > > ===== > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. > ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 6 00:43:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA17851 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 00:43:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from tecmina.com (tecmina.com [163.121.130.2]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17817 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 00:43:24 -0500 Received: from tmc.tecmina.com ([217.52.24.86]) by tecmina.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA11676; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 07:38:47 +0200 (EET) From: "r2d2" To: , , , , Cc: , "Eric Toriel" , "dtpamt-newsletter Moderator" , , Subject: HEX8: RE: Fw: VIRUS ALERT Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 00:42:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c05f47$49a46080$561834d9@tecmina.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C05F1D.60CE5880" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: High In-Reply-To: <002a01c05f32$36301c20$7d047b0a@rashidan> Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C05F1D.60CE5880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Subject: Fw: VIRUS ALERT VIRUS ALERT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >DEAR ALL > > > > > > > > > >VIRUS WITH NO CURE > > > > > > > > > >PLEASE, SEND THIS INFORMATION TO EVERY PERSON IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK. > > > > >IF YOU RECEIVE AN E-MAIL THAT READ "UPGRADE INTERNET2" > DO NOT OPEN IT, > > > > AS > > > > >IT CONTAINS AN EXECUTABLE NAMED "PERRIN.EXE". > IT WILL ERASE ALL THE > > DATA > > > > > > > > >IN YOUR HARD DRIVE AND IT WILL STAY IN MEMORY. EVERY TIME THAT YOU > > > > >UPLOAD ANY DATA, IT WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY ERASED AND YOU WILL NOT BE > > ABLE > > > > > > > > >TO USE YOUR COMPUTER AGAIN. > > > > >THIS INFORMATION WAS PUBLISHED YESTERDAY IN THE CNN WEB SITE. THIS > IS > > > > >VERY MUCH MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE "NAVIDA.EXE". > > > > > > > eGroups Sponsor ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C05F1D.60CE5880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:
Subject:  Fw:=20 VIRUS ALERT

VIRUS ALERT
>
>=20
>
>
>
> >
> >
> = >
> >=20 > > >DEAR ALL
> > > > >
> > > = >=20 >VIRUS WITH NO CURE
> > > > >
> > > = >=20 >PLEASE, SEND THIS INFORMATION TO EVERY PERSON IN YOUR ADDRESS=20 BOOK.
> > > > >IF YOU RECEIVE AN E-MAIL THAT READ = "UPGRADE=20 INTERNET2"
> DO NOT OPEN IT,
> > > > AS
> = > >=20 > >IT CONTAINS AN EXECUTABLE NAMED "PERRIN.EXE".
>  = IT WILL=20 ERASE ALL THE
> > DATA
> > > >
> > = > >=20 >IN YOUR HARD DRIVE AND IT WILL STAY IN MEMORY.  EVERY = TIME =20 THAT
YOU
> > > > >UPLOAD ANY DATA, IT WILL BE=20 AUTOMATICALLY ERASED AND YOU WILL NOT
BE
> > ABLE
> = >=20 > >
> > > > >TO USE YOUR COMPUTER = AGAIN.
> >=20 > > >THIS INFORMATION WAS PUBLISHED YESTERDAY IN THE CNN WEB=20 SITE.  THIS
> IS
> > > > >VERY MUCH MORE=20 DANGEROUS THAN THE "NAVIDA.EXE".
> >
> >
>=20 >
>




eGroups=20 Sponsor


------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C05F1D.60CE5880-- ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 6 01:23:05 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA21569 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 01:23:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from twigger.nl ([212.78.188.132]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21564 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 01:23:03 -0500 X-WebMail-UserID: harmen.mesker@wanadoo.nl Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 07:32:33 +0100 From: Harmen Mesker To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Subject: HEX8: VIRUS ALERT and Wangjiatai Message-ID: <3A30DEAB@twigger.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: InterChange (Hydra) SMTP v3.61.07 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hi everyone, About this message concerning a virus: please ignore it, it's a hoax (which most of these messages are), see http://www.europe.f-secure.com/hoaxes/perrin.htm. And now for something completely different: Are you all familiar with the article of Edward Shaughnessy about the Wangjiatai Guizang, published last year? I find it quite exciting that the Guizang really seems te have existed. Maybe the Lianshan will be dug up too someday. For those who don't have the article, please let me know (by private mail, not through the H-8 list), and I'll send you a PDF-file version of it. All the best, Harmen. ------------------------------------------------------- Visit my Yi Jing Page at http://home.wanadoo.nl/harmen.mesker! With: - Links to interesting Yi Jing sites - pictures of Richard Wilhelm and James Legge - 22(!) fonts with the Chinese characters of the hexagram names - nice Yi Jing backgrounds for your desktop - een Nederlandse I Tjing pagina (a Dutch Yi Jing page) - recommended books - more, more, more! ------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: r2d2 To: gannandelliottwave@eGroups.com ; gannsghost@eGroups.com ; wavetraders@eGroups.com ; xltraders@eGroups.com ; astrofinance@eGroups.com Cc: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org ; Eric Toriel ; dtpamt-newsletter Moderator ; cycletrader@eGroups.com ; aussie-stock-futures-list@eGroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 6:42 AM Subject: HEX8: RE: Fw: VIRUS ALERT -----Original Message----- From: Subject: Fw: VIRUS ALERT VIRUS ALERT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >DEAR ALL > > > > > > > > > >VIRUS WITH NO CURE > > > > > > > > > >PLEASE, SEND THIS INFORMATION TO EVERY PERSON IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK. > > > > >IF YOU RECEIVE AN E-MAIL THAT READ "UPGRADE INTERNET2" > DO NOT OPEN IT, > > > > AS > > > > >IT CONTAINS AN EXECUTABLE NAMED "PERRIN.EXE". > IT WILL ERASE ALL THE > > DATA > > > > > > > > >IN YOUR HARD DRIVE AND IT WILL STAY IN MEMORY. EVERY TIME THAT YOU > > > > >UPLOAD ANY DATA, IT WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY ERASED AND YOU WILL NOT BE > > ABLE > > > > > > > > >TO USE YOUR COMPUTER AGAIN. > > > > >THIS INFORMATION WAS PUBLISHED YESTERDAY IN THE CNN WEB SITE. THIS > IS > > > > >VERY MUCH MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE "NAVIDA.EXE". > > > > > > > ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 6 01:24:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA21822 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 01:24:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from sttlpop2.sttl.uswest.net (sttlpop2.sttl.uswest.net [206.81.192.2]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA21818 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 01:24:58 -0500 Received: (qmail 93666 invoked by alias); 6 Dec 2000 06:25:57 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org@fixme Received: (qmail 93609 invoked by uid 0); 6 Dec 2000 06:25:55 -0000 Received: from moneypenny.ludism.org (HELO ?63.225.161.89?) (63.225.161.89) by sttlpop2.sttl.uswest.net with SMTP; 6 Dec 2000 06:25:55 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 22:25:50 -0800 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org From: Ron Hale-Evans Subject: Re: HEX8: READ ME: Why your posts aren't appearing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org >Hi Ron, > >First and most important, thank you for maintaining the list! :-) > >Small point: I'm afraid it doesn't always work quite as smoothly as one >would hope. There have been occasions when messages I sent to hexagram-8 >didn't appear, and they were, I promise, sent from the subscribed address. >Just found two in the 'Sent' folder: 5th and 6th Nov, entitled 'Help...', >also sent to the right address (I've heard that helps, too), and in text >format. > >Technology has moods - makes life so much more interesting than if it just >worked all the time:-). Maybe when it's in this particular mood it sends >things to you but not the list. (So maybe fewer of the members are >half-witted than it would appear at first? See recent correspondence on >idiots. BTW, I have a haunting worry about books 'for complete idiots': what >if I buy one and can't understand it?) > >All best wishes, >Hilary It's working just fine, actually. I checked, and the reason your messages bounced on those dates is that their subject line was "Help...". The list is set up so that Majordomo will bounce messages with the word "help" in the subject line, because a large percentage of those are requests for help with unsubscribing from the list, or similar administrivia. Majordomo will also bounce messages with "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject line or the first few lines of the message body. That is why you see little of that sort of nonsense on this list. You may be right about computers having moods, but in my experience, most of the time I suspect a computer is doing something because of a "mood", I find that the computer is actually behaving in an orderly, regular way when I take the time to learn more about it. And I suspect the remaining cases would fall into the first category if I had the time or the smarts. Ron -- Ron's Info Closet: Center for Ludic Synergy, Kennexions Glass Bead Game, Positive Revolution FAQ, Hexagram-8 I Ching Mailing List, and links... Ron Hale-Evans ... rwhe@ludism.org ... Further up and further in! fnord ... rwhe@apocalypse.org ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 6 01:28:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA22699 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 01:28:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from sttlpop2.sttl.uswest.net (sttlpop2.sttl.uswest.net [206.81.192.2]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA22694 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 01:28:48 -0500 Received: (qmail 1492 invoked by alias); 6 Dec 2000 06:29:48 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org@fixme Received: (qmail 1463 invoked by uid 0); 6 Dec 2000 06:29:47 -0000 Received: from moneypenny.ludism.org (HELO ?63.225.161.89?) (63.225.161.89) by sttlpop2.sttl.uswest.net with SMTP; 6 Dec 2000 06:29:47 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 22:29:43 -0800 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org From: Ron Hale-Evans Subject: Re: HEX8: RE: Fw: VIRUS ALERT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Please do not send virus alerts to Hexagram-8. Most of them are false, and all of them are off-topic. Not only was this message *grossly* off-topic and probably false, but it contained HTML code and graphics, the day after I re-posted the list rules. The poster has been removed from the list. Ron -- Ron's Info Closet: Center for Ludic Synergy, Kennexions Glass Bead Game, Positive Revolution FAQ, Hexagram-8 I Ching Mailing List, and links... Ron Hale-Evans ... rwhe@ludism.org ... Further up and further in! fnord ... rwhe@apocalypse.org ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 6 09:15:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26007 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 09:15:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26002 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 09:15:48 -0500 Received: from sandpiper (adsl-151-204-71-12.delval.adsl.bellatlantic.net [151.204.71.12]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10444 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 09:16:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Aquel" To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 09:17:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: HEX8: Wangjiatai Guizang Message-ID: <3A2E0424.29857.4E6ADE7@localhost> In-reply-to: <3A30DEAB@twigger.nl> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hi Harmen! Would you please send me that PDF file to my address? I'm very interested. Thanks!! Luis > > Are you all familiar with the article of Edward Shaughnessy about the > Wangjiatai Guizang, published last year? I find it quite exciting that the > Harmen. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 6 15:57:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00549 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:57:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00530 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:57:23 -0500 Received: from sandpiper (adsl-151-204-71-12.delval.adsl.bellatlantic.net [151.204.71.12]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09846 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:57:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Aquel" To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:58:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: HEX8: Kammerer's Law of Seriality Message-ID: <3A2E622A.28668.65604E8@localhost> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org > Not only was this message *grossly* off-topic and probably false, but > it contained HTML code and graphics, the day after I re-posted the > list rules. > > The poster has been removed from the list. > > Ron Please, don't try to follow my train of thought or you'll end up as much of an idiot as I am... :-) Having said that, I was browsing thru Ron's website, trying to find some hidden reasons for his 'hair trigger' attitude towards those who 'forget' the rules of his list (I couldn't find any though, other than the fact that, as of the last update of his site, he hasn't been blessed with children of his own... - psst... between you and I, if you can have them, they are shipped with a boatload of patience...:-) ), when I found some interesting projects he's working on. One in particular, "The Voice of the Tao", mentioned Paul Kammerer book "Das Gesetz der Serie", translated in many places to English as "The Law of Seriality". Very intrigued about the fact that the book hasn't been translated to English (or Spanish, yup, I looked for it too), I did a few searches on the Internet about both, Paul Krammerer and this particular book. I was blown away by the fact that not much at all is said on the web about this work, which some call the foundation of C.G.Jung's Synchronicity Theory. Of course, the fact that the good doctor committed suicide after fighting allegations of fraud in some of his other investigations, didn't help much to make his work very popular... In any case, I found a very interesting link titled "Toward a Physical Basis for Astrology" by John Townley which mentions this work and the relation of its theory to Astrology. The link is below: http://www.fullmoon.nu/townley.htm I would be very interested in such a translation Ron. BTW, I had not visited your site for a couple of years. Very interesting projects you have in store. Cheers! Luis Andrade ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 6 16:15:21 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03435 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:15:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.3]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03419 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:15:20 -0500 From: Aglie@aol.com Received: from Aglie@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id h.e0.d39d5aa (24900) for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:15:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:15:44 EST Subject: Re: HEX8: VIRUS ALERT and Wangjiatai To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 123 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org In a message dated 12/6/00 1:24:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, harmen.mesker@wanadoo.nl writes: << Visit my Yi Jing Page at http://home.wanadoo.nl/harmen.mesker! >> I tried but could only locate wanadoo home page. Can you give further instructions? Thanks. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 6 16:40:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06264 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:40:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06260 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:40:50 -0500 Received: from sandpiper (adsl-151-204-71-12.delval.adsl.bellatlantic.net [151.204.71.12]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13717 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:41:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Aquel" To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:37:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: HEX8: Harmen's site Message-ID: <3A2E6B4A.11866.679AC14@localhost> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org http://home.wanadoo.nl/harmen.mesker > > I tried but could only locate wanadoo home page. Can you give further > instructions? > Thanks. > Try again at the above address. The only thing I did was to strip the "!" at the end of the address and it worked. Cheers! Luis _ _ /_\ __ _ _ _ ___| | //_\\ / _` | | | |/ _ \ | / _ \ (_| | |_| | __/ | \_/ \_/\__, |\__,_|\___|_| |_| ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 6 19:46:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27520 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 19:46:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from mail.vi-internet.de (mail.loop.de [195.182.114.102]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27502 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 19:46:02 -0500 Received: from planet-interkom.de ([62.180.7.201]) by mail.vi-internet.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:47:02 +0100 Message-ID: <3A2EDD4D.8581945B@planet-interkom.de> Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 01:43:58 +0100 From: Michael Lutzeier X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [de] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,de,nl,zh MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org > "I find Schuessler's dictionary extremely irritating because he subscribes to > the > extreme form of the ideology that the real language is spoken rather than > written. To me, langauge is both. He says his dictionary is a dictionary of > words and not graphs and it is arranged alphabetically by pinyin. He omits > characters for which meaning is known but sound is not. (One could ask how > sure we can be about how EZ was pronounced.)" Hello, In general I agree with you, Geoffrey. Both is Language, but there is a distinction, to me written language is different from spoken language. Our ancestors saw writing down sounds and reread them as pure magic. In China, I'm sure it was not different. Old taoist writings often had no sound at all but lot's of meaning. Developing both sounds and letters (read: signs) to notate it, varies in each language, every culture and time seemed to have obviously different approach to their reality. Things or realities having an open , broad meanings for example: "Door", use long sounds, equally writing was designed to adjust to that distinction by using a double vowel or in German formerly using an extra "h" to demonstrate space: "Thür"or "Thor". Another example in dutch and english is "tree" and "boom". Changing the orthography (greek for: notating according to truth) is a crime(!) to actual meaning, because it actually deprives one of means to write/speak and think of the associated realities. So if chinese authorities strive for simplifying the characters it's not for the reasons they claim for, it is for regulating/centralising public reality - the end of variation. This is obvious especially for students of the YiJing :-)All above is right for every language, but the more "images" it uses, the more serious it gets. Written language was developed for different needs, written german for example was "built" in the middle ages for finding ways to the unsayable for a great part. English being a quite technical language destroys a lot by infiltrating grown languages. (I hope nobody is offended) > > To me this means that if we find a character we do not recognize, we must > first look it up in a dictionary with a radical index, then get the pinyin > (not given in older dictionaries), then find it in Schuessler. I'm a relative newbie on learning chinese and I am greatly thankful for everything which is contributing by the list having to do with language. Here is something I just found lately: www.zhongwen.com zhongwen.com this is (more than) an online dictionary, able to find characters by strokes, pinyin, GB or Big5, or dictionary-number. there is an ethymology tree, and traditional- modern character converter. Plus you can hear the sounds and learn the order of strokes written by animated gifs. And hi Frank, besides going the way of language, I finally got your I ching Primer (it cost me some bucks I might say) and it find it extremely inspiring. Stars and Dice also arrived a couple of days ago, but until now it dissappoints a little because I was hoping finding more on "why" instead of "how". All the best, Michael ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 6 23:47:39 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18010 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 23:47:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from imo-r12.mail.aol.com (imo-r12.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.66]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18006 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 23:47:38 -0500 From: Aglie@aol.com Received: from Aglie@aol.com by imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id h.c3.bc3ffc8 (6152) for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 23:48:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 23:48:11 EST Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 123 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org In a message dated 12/6/00 7:47:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlutzeier@planet-interkom.de writes: << And hi Frank, besides going the way of language, I finally got your I ching Primer (it cost me some bucks I might say) and it find it extremely inspiring. Stars and Dice also arrived a couple of days ago, but until now it dissappoints a little because I was hoping finding more on "why" instead of "how". >> For my information, what are these? I've been thinking more about the word/character separation implied by Schuessler and current teaching of Chinese in which characters are to be memorized rather than analyzed because they are phonetic. While Chinese is not a direct pointing at reality without words as Ezra Pound and 18th c western scholars sometimes thought, the characters are IMHO not really phonetic because you cannot determine the pronounciation just by looking at them. To be sure a guess can be made with but writen Chinese it is quite unlike English - or Tibetan or ancient Egyptian for that matter - in all these you can sound out a word without knowing its meaning just by looking at it. Uniquely in Chinese, one can know the meaning from the written language without knowing how to pronounce it. Anyone else tried Schuessler's dictionary? May all sentient beings be happy! Geoffrey ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Thu Dec 7 02:16:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA04280 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 02:16:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from mail.independence.net (mail.independence.net [204.144.177.1]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA04275 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 02:16:00 -0500 Received: (qmail 21742 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2000 07:17:04 -0000 Received: from ridgway313.independence.net (HELO independence.net) (204.144.177.77) by mail.independence.net with SMTP; 7 Dec 2000 07:17:04 -0000 Message-ID: <3A2F394B.AE791483@independence.net> Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 00:16:27 -0700 From: bradford X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,zh-TW,zh MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hi Geoffrey & all > > Anyone else tried Schuessler's dictionary? > I use about ten different dictionaries & wouldn't settle for less. While this one is nowhere near complete or definitive I find it really useful in helping to confirm that a gloss was current in Spring & Autumn or Early Zhou, particularly in the Shijing and Shujing, which I don't have in Chinese. I like the cited sources. happily sentient, Bradford ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Thu Dec 7 09:18:57 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12112 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:18:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from fw.iris.edu (fw.iris.edu [198.77.109.66]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12107 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:18:56 -0500 Received: from [192.35.78.202] (tui.iris.edu [192.35.78.202]) by fw.iris.edu (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eB7EJq236711 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:19:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rbutler@iris.edu) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:17:57 -0500 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org From: "Dr R. Butler" Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hi Geoffrey, I use Schuessler's dictionary regularly. It is imperfect, but I am glad to have it for the window it does bring to the early Zhou literary contexts of characters. I agree that that the arrangement based upon Pinyin-sound(early-Zhou-sound(Zhou-pictograph)) can be quite challenging if you want to find something. Happy Holidays! Rhett > >Anyone else tried Schuessler's dictionary? > >May all sentient beings be happy! >Geoffrey > > >===== >To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org >from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Thu Dec 7 13:08:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09155 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:08:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from mail.vi-internet.de (mail.loop.de [195.182.114.102]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09149 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:08:44 -0500 Received: from planet-interkom.de ([62.180.7.89]) by mail.vi-internet.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Thu, 7 Dec 2000 19:07:45 +0100 Message-ID: <3A2FD109.FF5A500F@planet-interkom.de> Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 19:03:54 +0100 From: Michael Lutzeier X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [de] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,de,nl,zh MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Aglie@aol.com schrieb: > In a message dated 12/6/00 7:47:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, > mlutzeier@planet-interkom.de writes: > > << And hi Frank, besides going the way of language, I finally got your I ching > Primer (it cost me some bucks I might say) and it find it extremely > inspiring. > Stars and Dice also arrived a couple of days ago, but until now it > dissappoints > a little because I was hoping finding more on "why" instead of "how". > >> > For my information, what are these? > This is for Frank to jump in (!?) > > I've been thinking more about the word/character separation implied by > Schuessler and current teaching of Chinese in which characters are to be > memorized rather than analyzed because they are phonetic. While Chinese is > not a direct pointing at reality without words as Ezra Pound and 18th c > western scholars sometimes thought, the characters are IMHO not really > phonetic because you cannot determine the pronounciation just by looking at > them. To be sure a guess can be made with but writen Chinese it is quite > unlike English - or Tibetan or ancient Egyptian for that matter - in all > these you can sound out a word without knowing its meaning just by looking at > it. Lately a scottish friend of mine read a book-passage to me, and I didn't understand a word! I doubt whether I would understand even somebody in my motherlanguage from the middleages. So I disagree with you. > Uniquely in Chinese, one can know the meaning from the written language > without knowing how to pronounce it. > Right. That's why chinese people hurriedly write the according character in the air while they speak, in order to make themselves clear. > > Anyone else tried Schuessler's dictionary? > If that is the one to start with, i will soon! > > May all sentient beings be happy! > Geoffrey All the best likewise Michael ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Thu Dec 7 13:41:15 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13453 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:41:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from imo-r20.mail.aol.com (imo-r20.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.162]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13448 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:41:14 -0500 From: Aglie@aol.com Received: from Aglie@aol.com by imo-r20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id h.37.da7df46 (8233) for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:41:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37.da7df46.276133ed@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:41:49 EST Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 123 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org In a message dated 12/7/00 1:12:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlutzeier@planet-interkom.de writes: << To be sure a guess can be made with but writen Chinese it is quite > unlike English - or Tibetan or ancient Egyptian for that matter - in all > these you can sound out a word without knowing its meaning just by looking at > it. Lately a scottish friend of mine read a book-passage to me, and I didn't understand a word! I doubt whether I would understand even somebody in my motherlanguage from the middleages. So I disagree with you. >> Dialects are another issue. It remains however that if you know the rules for how a letter or syllable is voiced, you can approximate it from written text. With Chinese you can only make a reasonable guess sometimes. And you can read it quite accurately without any idea of how it sounds. This is not the case in phonetic langauges, such as ancient Egyptian which uses pictures (in the hieroglyphic script) but which stand for sounds, not meanings. In Chinese, uniquely, the characters stand for both. Regarding Scottish, my experience traveling in the UK is that they no longer speak comprehensible English there. Fortunately they colonized the New World where we still know how to speak English. That the English have it backwards and think they are the ones who speak it correctly is a sign of how far they are from linguistic reality. In reference to another part of the post, I think those who have used it will agree that Schuessler's dictionary is not the one to start with. For me, by far the most helpful is Ping-gam Go: What Character is That? BTW today I translated my first complete phrase from I Ching which turned out to be "favorable to ford the big river" I knew 2 of the 4 characters already and the other two took me only an hour with the dictionaries. May all sentient beings be happy! Geoffrey ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Thu Dec 7 14:21:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19767 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:21:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.50]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19763 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:21:08 -0500 Received: from worldnet.att.net ([32.102.243.18]) by mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20001207192150.WGNW25510.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 19:21:50 +0000 Message-ID: <3A2FE3E4.C4C8CA4C@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 14:24:21 -0500 From: Lare/Mo Lei-Li Organization: SPUP (Soc. for the Prevention of Unbalanced Parentheses X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary References: <37.da7df46.276133ed@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org > BTW today I translated my first complete phrase from I Ching which turned out > to be "favorable to ford the big river" I knew 2 of the 4 characters already > and the other two took me only an hour with the dictionaries. > > May all sentient beings be happy! > Geoffrey ........>Congratulations, Geoffrey! ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Thu Dec 7 16:24:27 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06475 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:24:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from imo-r14.mail.aol.com (imo-r14.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06467 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:24:25 -0500 From: FKegan@aol.com Received: from FKegan@aol.com by imo-r14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id h.a8.e17ff13 (16486) for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:25:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:24:59 EST Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_a8.e17ff13.27615a2b_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: Unknown sub 149 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org --part1_a8.e17ff13.27615a2b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Geoffrey, I am delighted you were able to get copies of I Ching Primer and Stars and Dice. The Primer was my first work, and it has its own relationship with its readers. As to Stars and Dice, it was written some decades ago and at that time I did not know anything about the Why. I simply noticed that it was possible to explain each of the elements of astrology in terms of the patterns on the dice faces. By this time I do have some idea of the why, the dice-face patterns express traditional Pythagoren number. These were not created by Pythagoras, rather they are concrete and objective number patterns of the Ancient worldview and epistemology. This arises from the relationship of a circle and its radius and the chords along the circumference of the same magnitude as the radius. The dice-face patterns describe in number or in dots at center or edge of a plane figure the same fundamental geometrical relationships established within a circle. From the fundamental axiom that all circles are similar, it follows that anything that can be abstracted as any sort of a cycle can be symbolically represented by either the dice-face patterns or the geometry of circles. Both astrology and the Yi describe symbolic systems of mapping cyclic events or cyclic interpretations of objective human experience. Therefore both can be described and understood in terms of the geometry and patterns of either the dice-face patterns (Pythagorean eidos) or hexagrams. This is the reason why geometry becomes so much more fundamental than any language text to understand the meaning of any hexagram or moving line of a hexagram. The traditional Chinese commentary notes that first came the set of hexagram patterns and then later the text and interpretations were attached to those hexagram patterns and lines. It has been assumed that the patterns themselves were impossible to understand or interpret except through the language text. My book the I Ching Primer arose from my realization that the hexagram line patterns did express the meanings of the hexagrams through the application of a few very simple principles. At the time I wrote the Primer, the insight was very new and I was only clear how those principles would explain the trigram meanings. I am still in the process of working out the complete explanation of the 64 hexagrams from the line pattern principles alone. Lately, my interest has been taken up with the more intriguing notion of why the hexagrams are put into the sequence from all yang lines for 1 to alternating yin and yang lines for 63 and 64. That seems to arise from philosophical principles, which I have recently connected to the more sophisticated Pythagorean concepts of the Monad, Dyad, Triad and Tetrad. It has been a major research exploration to recreate what the Pythagorean perspective and geometrical interpretation was all about. It appears to be geometrical perspective that was universal in Ancient times, and by the same token is quite different from our modern perspective upon mathematics and geometry. Again, I am delighted you were able to find my books out in the world. The why of my perspective is the philosophy of geometry in the ancient world. Frank --part1_a8.e17ff13.27615a2b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Geoffrey,
     I am delighted you were able to get copies of I Ching Primer and Stars
and Dice.
The Primer was my first work, and it has its own relationship with its
readers.
   As to Stars and Dice, it was written some decades ago and at that time I
did not know anything about the Why. I simply noticed that it was possible to
explain each of the elements of astrology in terms of the patterns on the
dice faces.
     By this time I do have some idea of the why, the dice-face patterns
express traditional Pythagoren number. These were not created by Pythagoras,
rather they are concrete and objective number patterns of the Ancient
worldview and epistemology. This arises from the relationship of  a circle
and its radius and the chords along the circumference of the same magnitude
as the radius.
    The dice-face patterns describe in number or in dots at center or edge
of a plane figure the same fundamental geometrical relationships established
within a circle. From the fundamental axiom that all circles are similar, it
follows that anything that can be abstracted as any sort of a cycle can be
symbolically represented by either the dice-face patterns or the geometry of
circles.
    Both astrology and the Yi describe symbolic systems of mapping cyclic
events or  cyclic interpretations of objective human experience. Therefore
both can be described and understood in terms of the geometry and patterns of
either the dice-face patterns (Pythagorean eidos) or hexagrams. This is the
reason why geometry becomes so much more fundamental than any language text
to understand the meaning of any hexagram or moving line of a hexagram.
    The traditional Chinese commentary notes that first came the set of
hexagram patterns and then later the text and interpretations were attached
to those hexagram patterns and lines. It has been assumed that the patterns
themselves were impossible to understand or interpret except through the
language text. My book the I Ching Primer arose from my realization that the
hexagram line patterns did express the meanings of the hexagrams through the
application of a few very simple principles.  At the time I wrote the Primer,
the insight was very new and I was only clear how those principles would
explain the trigram meanings. I am still in the process of working out the
complete explanation of the 64 hexagrams from the line pattern principles
alone.
    Lately, my interest has been taken up with the more intriguing notion of
why the hexagrams are put into the sequence from all yang lines for 1 to
alternating yin and yang lines for 63 and 64. That seems to arise from
philosophical principles, which I have recently connected to the more
sophisticated Pythagorean concepts of the Monad, Dyad, Triad and Tetrad.  It
has been a major research exploration to recreate what the Pythagorean
perspective and geometrical interpretation was all about. It appears to be  
geometrical perspective that was universal in Ancient times, and by the same
token is quite different from our modern perspective upon mathematics and
geometry.
   Again, I am delighted you were able to find my books out in the world.
The why of my perspective is the philosophy of geometry in the ancient world.
Frank --part1_a8.e17ff13.27615a2b_boundary-- ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Thu Dec 7 17:37:48 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16719 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:37:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from mail.vi-internet.de (mail.loop.de [195.182.114.102]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16713 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:37:47 -0500 Received: from planet-interkom.de ([62.180.175.110]) by mail.vi-internet.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Thu, 7 Dec 2000 23:38:52 +0100 Message-ID: <3A3010C2.A67E2908@planet-interkom.de> Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 23:35:46 +0100 From: Michael Lutzeier X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [de] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,de,nl,zh MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org FKegan@aol.com schrieb: > Hi Geoffrey, > I am delighted you were able to get copies of I Ching Primer and > Stars > and Dice. Here is a misunderstanding: i got the books! Michael ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Thu Dec 7 18:01:00 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20608 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:01:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.4]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20599 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:00:59 -0500 From: Aglie@aol.com Received: from Aglie@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id h.34.dd9647c (3311) for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:01:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34.dd9647c.276170c8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:01:28 EST Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 123 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org In a message dated 12/7/00 5:39:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlutzeier@planet-interkom.de writes: << Here is a misunderstanding: i got the books! Michael >> I didn't Geoffrey ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 13 10:37:22 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21632 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:37:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21627 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:37:21 -0500 Received: from heybo002wxs ([195.121.218.128]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G5IJHF01.8MA for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:39:15 +0100 Message-ID: <005e01c0651a$b7284a80$80da79c3@nl> From: "Postmaster AHeyboer" To: "hexagram-8 @apocalypse.org" Subject: HEX8: RE: Wangjiatai Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:35:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org > Thanks a lot for this kind of information! > LiSe > Book of the moon > www.aheyboer.com > postmaster@aheyboer.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Harmen Mesker" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 7:32 AM > Subject: HEX8: VIRUS ALERT and Wangjiatai > > > > > > Are you all familiar with the article of Edward Shaughnessy about the > > Wangjiatai Guizang, published last year? I find it quite exciting that the > > Guizang really seems te have existed. Maybe the Lianshan will be dug up too > > someday. For those who don't have the article, please let me know (by private > > mail, not through the H-8 list), and I'll send you a PDF-file version of it. > > > > All the best, > > > > Harmen. > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Visit my Yi Jing Page at > > > > http://home.wanadoo.nl/harmen.mesker! > > > > With: > > - Links to interesting Yi Jing sites > > - pictures of Richard Wilhelm and James Legge > > - 22(!) fonts with the Chinese characters of the > > hexagram names > > - nice Yi Jing backgrounds for your desktop > > - een Nederlandse I Tjing pagina (a Dutch Yi Jing page) > > - recommended books > > - more, more, more! > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 13 10:37:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21641 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:37:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21636 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:37:24 -0500 Received: from heybo002wxs ([195.121.218.128]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G5IJGJ00.EO6 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:38:43 +0100 Message-ID: <005a01c0651a$a41a0e60$80da79c3@nl> From: "Postmaster AHeyboer" To: "hexagram-8 @apocalypse.org" Subject: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:26:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Sorry Ron, my computer sometimes do not do what I tell him to, so he sent the mail with the wrong account. Sending them again. Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary Great! This morning I uploaded the entire Zhou Yi in pinyin to my website. (Without Wings) One on a page, as printable text, and the same one as a txt in a zip-file. It might be that there are here and there small errors, I converted the Yi from simplified characters to fulform, and he made some mistakes. The original text was not without faults either, but while working with it, I corrected most of them. This way it will be no problem to search for a character in Schuessler or any other dictionary according to pinyin. LiSe Book of the moon www.aheyboer.com postmaster@aheyboer.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 7:41 PM > Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary > > > > > BTW today I translated my first complete phrase from I Ching which turned out > > to be "favorable to ford the big river" I knew 2 of the 4 characters already > > and the other two took me only an hour with the dictionaries. > > > > May all sentient beings be happy! > > Geoffrey > > > ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 13 10:37:32 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21652 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:37:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21646 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:37:31 -0500 Received: from heybo002wxs ([195.121.218.128]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G5IJH400.SMV for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:39:04 +0100 Message-ID: <005c01c0651a$b079c7e0$80da79c3@nl> From: "Postmaster AHeyboer" To: "hexagram-8 @apocalypse.org" Subject: Fw: HEX8: Language thread Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:30:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Some people (me!) need to learn the same thing over and over again before they get it. Next time I will search Internet first thing. Thanks for the addresses - I knew bookfinder, but the other three add a lot new chances. LiSe Book of the moon www.aheyboer.com postmaster@aheyboer.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bradford" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 3:25 AM > Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread > > > > Hi Lise, > > > > RE: > > >In a message dated 12/3/2000 7:48:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > >postmaster@aheyboer.com writes: > > > > >Is this translation of GiaFu Feng still available anywhere? What I > > have seen > > > of it makes me certainly curious. > > > > If used books are out there they're probably on one of these. A quick > > search on the first one alone turned up several copies. > > > > http://www.bibliofind.com/ > > http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/IList > > http://www.bookfinder.com/ > > http://www.trussel.com/f_books.htm > > > > These can be costly links to bookmark > > Happy serching > > > > Bradford > > > > > > ===== > > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. > > > ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 13 10:37:10 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21615 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:37:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21608 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:37:08 -0500 Received: from heybo002wxs ([195.121.218.128]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G5IJGT00.ZM7 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:38:53 +0100 Message-ID: <005b01c0651a$aa20b840$80da79c3@nl> From: "Postmaster AHeyboer" To: "hexagram-8 @apocalypse.org" Subject: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:28:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org To solve the misunderstanding: copy = ein Exemplar LiSe Book of the moon www.aheyboer.com postmaster@aheyboer.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Lutzeier" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 11:35 PM > Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary > > > > > > > > FKegan@aol.com schrieb: > > > > > Hi Geoffrey, > > > I am delighted you were able to get copies of I Ching Primer and > > > Stars > > > and Dice. > > > > Here is a misunderstanding: i got the books! > > Michael > > > > > > > > ===== > > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. > > > ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 13 10:37:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21682 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:37:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21677 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:37:41 -0500 Received: from heybo002wxs ([195.121.218.128]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G5IJH500.2NB for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:39:05 +0100 Message-ID: <005d01c0651a$b1000ee0$80da79c3@nl> From: "Postmaster AHeyboer" To: "hexagram-8 @apocalypse.org" Subject: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:34:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Sorry for all the one-and-a-half sentences, it is because I had to send it again. LiSe > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:02 PM > Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary > > > > LeSe writes: > > > > << covers many more circumstances, it is less narrowly defined. > > I get the meanings from the Far East Chin-E dict., Mathews' C-E dict., > > Wenlin (which is de Francis), and the old characters from > > Karlgren (GSR) and Wang HongYuan. There are more books I use as references, > > like Kunst, Shaugnessy, Lynn, Rutt, sometimes Cleary. > > >>LeSe's recent post was quite helpful to me. > > I wonder if LeSe or others can say more about how they use these > > dictionaries. Are most of the early Zhou (EZ) characters in Mathews? > Yes, most are. More than in Far-East dictionary. Mathews' is WadeGiles-alphabetical, but finding according to radical too. No pinyin. > > > I find > > Schuessler's dictionary extremely irritating because he subscribes to the > > extreme form of the ideology that the real language is spoken rather than > > written. To me, langauge is both. He says his dictionary is a dictionary of > > words and not graphs and it is arranged alphabetically by pinyin. He omits > > characters for which meaning is known but sound is not. (One could ask how > > sure we can be about how EZ was pronounced.) > Schuessler was a sound-man (mhm) and the rest is more or less an extra. > > > To me this means that if we find a character we do not recognize, we must > > first look it up in a dictionary with a radical index, then get the pinyin > > (not given in older dictionaries), then find it in Schuessler. > My very first character took me more than a day to find. Now it is a question of minutes. The easiest way is an YiJing with the pinyin added too. Kunst does, and he also gives the number of the entry in Karlgren 'Grammata Serica Recensa', the best one for old characters. He has a concordance too: for every character all the places where it appears in the Yi. The Wenlin program is very good: point at the character and it shows the pinyin, the meaning, often the old character-form, and it even says it aloud in a man's or woman's voice (www.wenlin.com ). Bradford gives in his book the pinyin and the Mathews' number and also a concordance (I have always a huge admiration for those people who do such a big amount of work). It is a pity that there is no Yi in ZhongWen (www.zhongwen.com ), for there too you can click on a character and you get the meaning immediately. This is a good place to find a character. Even if you know only one part of it, you can search your way through a tree structure and find it. And you can even search for an English word and find the Chinese character. If one of the parts means for example 'man', you find 'ren', then you follow the tree until you see another part of your character and so on. I tried to write to the maker, Harbauch, if he could not include an Yi, but the address did not work, and I have to find the right one yet. > > > What use is a dictionary of a spoken language which has not been spoken for > > more than 2,000 years? There may be some Chinese immortals still alive from > > the Zhou but I am not one of them. If I were, I would not need a dictionary > > or the I Ching for that matter. > > I'm venting my frustration but also asking if others have found a way to make > > this dictionary useful. > > May all sentient beings be happy! > > Geoffrey > > Schuessler is (for me) not a dictionary, but a way to see how characters were used in old texts. F.e. Lin, the name of hex.19, is approaching a valley (literally looking down), or either god or sun shining down: bestowing blessings, or an approacher (a war machine). The most modern meaning is the scientific one: nearing a point (and never actually hitting it). I combine the two. LiSe Book of the moon www.aheyboer.com postmaster@aheyboer.com ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 13 10:38:54 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22014 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:38:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22009 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:38:53 -0500 Received: from heybo002wxs ([195.121.218.128]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G5IJJ402.3O0 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:40:16 +0100 Message-ID: <005f01c0651a$dba8c600$80da79c3@nl> From: "Postmaster AHeyboer" To: "hexagram-8 @apocalypse.org" Subject: HEX8: Language thread Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:37:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org I ordered it already. Now I am even more curious.. LiSe Book of the moon www.aheyboer.com postmaster@aheyboer.com ----- Original Message ----- From: FKegan@aol.com To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 12:35 AM Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread In a message dated 12/3/2000 7:48:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, postmaster@aheyboer.com writes: Is this translation of GiaFu Feng still available anywhere? What I have seen of it makes me certainly curious. Hi Lise, There are very few copies of the Gia-Fu text we wrote together in 1974. Hopefully one of them will get digitalized and be available on the web. Last year I was finally able to register the copyright to it. I am told that Gia-Fu worked on his translation until his death in 1988 and some version of his later work was published in New Zealand. Frank ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 13 16:41:25 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01059 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:41:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.46]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01054 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:41:24 -0500 Received: from worldnet.att.net ([32.102.201.119]) by mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20001213214251.FYIC2402.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:42:51 +0000 Message-ID: <3A37EE00.C6F30F77@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:45:37 -0500 From: Lare/Mo Lei-Li Organization: SPUP (Soc. for the Prevention of Unbalanced Parentheses X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary References: <005d01c0651a$b1000ee0$80da79c3@nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org For a "hot" [clickable] YJ, go to: http://www.ns.net/~cpolish/DEFAULT.HTM > It is a pity that there is no Yi in ZhongWen > (www.zhongwen.com ), for there too you can click on a character and you get the meaning immediately. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 13 18:54:29 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20495 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:54:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from mail.vi-internet.de (mailx.planet-interkom.de [195.182.114.81]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20487 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:54:26 -0500 Received: from planet-interkom.de ([62.180.172.194]) by mail.vi-internet.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:56:21 +0100 Message-ID: <3A380BE2.13E69A0F@planet-interkom.de> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:53:07 +0100 From: Michael Lutzeier X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [de] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,de,nl,zh MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary References: <005b01c0651a$aa20b840$80da79c3@nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hi Lise, actually it is not that important, it's only that *I* got the books/copies and not geoffrey. Illusion seems to be a legal way of nature and e-communication. :o)) Michael Postmaster AHeyboer schrieb: > To solve the misunderstanding: copy = ein Exemplar > LiSe > Book of the moon > www.aheyboer.com > postmaster@aheyboer.com > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael Lutzeier" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 11:35 PM > > Subject: Re: HEX8: Language thread ans Schuessler's Dictionary > > > > > > > > > > > > > FKegan@aol.com schrieb: > > > > > > > Hi Geoffrey, > > > > I am delighted you were able to get copies of I Ching Primer and > > > > Stars > > > > and Dice. > > > > > > Here is a misunderstanding: i got the books! > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > > > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. > > > > > > > ===== > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Mon Dec 18 17:56:43 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01802 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:56:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from gtei1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.145]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01788 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:56:41 -0500 Received: from sandpiper (adsl-151-204-70-228.delval.adsl.bellatlantic.net [151.204.70.228]) by gtei1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA21225 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:58:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Aquel" To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:59:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: HEX8: Taoist exhibit in Chicago Message-ID: <3A3E5077.113.F9B2D38@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hi all! I saw the following interesting article in CNN.COM: http://www.cnn.com/2000/STYLE/arts/12/18/taoist.art.ap/index.html I hope you enjoy it, Luis ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 20 15:34:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19635 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:34:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.144]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19619 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:34:05 -0500 Received: from sandpiper (adsl-151-204-73-243.delval.adsl.bellatlantic.net [151.204.73.243]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA14198 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:47:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Aquel" To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:49:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: HEX8: "I Ching Primer" et al Message-ID: <3A40B8D2.12216.A49075@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hi all, I was able to track down and buy a few books that are dificult to find. One is from our friend and fellow list member Frank R. Kegan, "I Ching Primer". Very, very interesting Frank! The other one is "The Nature of the I Ching", by Charles Ponce. Another fascinating point of view. Cheers, Luis ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 27 14:29:49 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19699 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 14:29:49 -0500 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 14:29:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from geo.net.ge (mail.geo.net.ge [212.58.125.2]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19631 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 14:29:04 -0500 Received: from pamela ([212.110.239.30]) by geo.net.ge (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA31880 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:29:37 +0400 Message-ID: <001101c0703b$48416300$1eef6ed4@pamela> From: "Nakashidze" To: Subject: HEX8: Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:26:43 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Happy New Year! Greetings to all on the occasion of New Millenium. Best wishes: successes, happiness and wisdom of White Snake! By the way, I read in one message on the list about site with half-hundred translations of hex names. But I forget where I see it and now can't find. Would anyone help me? My book on the "I Ching" will soon appear - it will be in Russian -"Vremia "Peremen" (prostranstrvo i vremia v Iczine) - that means- "Time of "Changes" (space and time in I Ching). All the best, Timur ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Wed Dec 27 15:33:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29419 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 15:33:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from mail.independence.net (mail.independence.net [204.144.177.1]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA29407 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 15:33:35 -0500 Received: (qmail 2374 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2000 20:33:52 -0000 Received: from ridgway405.independence.net (HELO independence.net) (204.144.177.93) by mail.independence.net with SMTP; 27 Dec 2000 20:33:52 -0000 Message-ID: <3A4A5208.5FD02843@independence.net> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 13:33:12 -0700 From: bradford X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,zh-TW,zh MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Subject: HEX8: Gua Ming (Hexagram Name) Site Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hi Timur- You might be thinking about Alan Drake's site. It has a new URL: http://sites.netscape.net/kumoyamaalan/chuntzupath.htm Get workshop flyer #7, PDF format. Bradford ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Fri Dec 29 13:49:08 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25823 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:49:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from geo.net.ge (mail.geo.net.ge [212.58.125.2]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25799 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:49:01 -0500 Received: from pamela ([212.110.239.33]) by geo.net.ge (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA06835 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:49:43 +0400 Message-ID: <002001c071c8$0c1e8ae0$21ef6ed4@pamela> From: "Nakashidze" To: Subject: HEX8: HexNames Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:48:19 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Hi, Bradford! Thank you very much for your information -Drake's site appears to be very useful. Comparison of HexNames in different translations gives additional information for their understanding. Where your translation of I Ching may be found ? Once more thank you and best wishes in the New Year! Timur ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Sat Dec 30 01:07:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA28207 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 01:07:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from mail.independence.net (mail.independence.net [204.144.177.1]) by apocalypse.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA28202 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 01:07:49 -0500 Received: (qmail 16565 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2000 06:08:24 -0000 Received: from ridgway304.independence.net (HELO independence.net) (204.144.177.68) by mail.independence.net with SMTP; 30 Dec 2000 06:08:24 -0000 Message-ID: <3A4D7BAE.CA5BC2B7@independence.net> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 23:07:43 -0700 From: bradford X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,zh-TW,zh MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Subject: Re: HEX8: HexNames References: <002001c071c8$0c1e8ae0$21ef6ed4@pamela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Timur: Nakashidze wrote: > > Hi, Bradford! > Thank you very much for your information -Drake's site appears to be very > useful. Comparison of HexNames in different translations gives additional > information for their understanding. > Where your translation of I Ching may be found ? > Once more thank you and best wishes in the New Year! > Timur Hi again. My own translation is undergoing a long revision and is temporarily unavailable in hard copy. I have information from about 30 new books and three new Chinese dictionaries to incorporate into the work. I can only share it now as an Email attachment in Microsoft Word (6 or better). The whole text is 2.5 mb (it's a little over 700 pages long). There would be no charge, but you'd have to write privately for it - I can't send it over Hex-8. Bradford ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE.