From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Fri Jun 8 14:03:19 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.11.2/8.11.0) id f58I3JC12251 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:03:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by apocalypse.org (8.11.2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f58I3Hl12247 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:03:18 -0400 Received: from heybo002 ([195.121.114.164]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with SMTP id GEMIKG03.ECO for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 20:12:16 +0200 Message-ID: <000e01c0f046$78309280$a47279c3@heybo002> From: "heybo008" To: References: Subject: Re: HEX8: Re: References for early Chinese Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 20:11:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org A very late reply, because my account did not work for some mysterious reason. So I got all messages of the last month today. Good thing this is not a very busy list. I think Karlgren is not the kind of guy to bother with easy finding and such. I never had the idea he had arranged them in any comprehensible order. Once you get used to it, it is no problem anymore. I imagine him scribbling down characters all the time, everywhere he found them, and not thinking of anything logical and certainly not of people trying to find them. I always admire people who make a program and also make a helpfile for it. As if there are two different people inside them. LiSe Yi Jing, Book of the Moon www.anton-heyboer.org postmaster@aheyboer.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 5:53 PM Subject: Re: HEX8: Re: References for early Chinese > In a message dated 4/20/01 2:39:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > postmaster@aheyboer.com writes: > > << > In the back of Karlgren is a radical-list. I look for a character in > Far-East dictionary, which has a list, I believe in the back, of all entries > by radical. I numbered the radicals for easier finding, and did the same > with Karlgren's list (not much work). This way I find them quick. > What I also did: every time I found a character, I wrote the Far-East number > next to the word in Ritsema-and-Karcher's concordance. This way I can find > everything very quick. > LiSe >> > These are excellent ideas; I will do the same. > What have piqued my curiosity in Karlgren are two things. First, what is the > rationale for the order of characters in the main section and their placement > in groups. Have you figured this out? > Second, why is he so laconic? The introduction gives no information about how > to use the book nor is any given later. Why does he not number the radicals > in the list in back leaving it for the reader to count for him/her self? Is > it snobbery to make it harder for non-Sinologists like myself? > Schleusser is clear about how he constructed his dictionary despite its > irrationality - a dictionary of a spoken language which is no longer spoken. > Anyone have any thoughts on these. > > May all sentient beings be happy! > Geoffrey > > > ===== > To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org > from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Fri Jun 8 14:50:44 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.11.2/8.11.0) id f58IoiS15458 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:50:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by apocalypse.org (8.11.2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f58Iohl15454 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:50:43 -0400 Received: from Aglie@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id h.e.dfcaa29 (25105) for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:59:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Aglie@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:59:35 EDT Subject: Re: HEX8: Re: References for early Chinese To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 140 Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org In a message dated 6/8/2001 2:15:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, postmaster@aheyboer.com writes: << A very late reply, because my account did not work for some mysterious reason. So I got all messages of the last month today. Good thing this is not a very busy list. I think Karlgren is not the kind of guy to bother with easy finding and such. I never had the idea he had arranged them in any comprehensible order. Once you get used to it, it is no problem anymore. I imagine him scribbling down characters all the time, everywhere he found them, and not thinking of anything logical and certainly not of people trying to find them. I always admire people who make a program and also make a helpfile for it. As if there are two different people inside them. LiSe Yi Jing, Book of the Moon www.anton-heyboer.org >> I appreciate this very much. GSR made me feel crazy when I first tried to figure it out. The order seems nearly random as does the numbering system. I have no doubt he was one of the greatest scholars of early Chinese but I wish he'd taken the time to organize more logically. Perhaps working with early texts makes one a little crazy. So I am reassured that I am not the only one able to figure out his scheme for GSR. May all sentient beings be happy. Geoffrey ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE. From owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Fri Jun 8 17:09:50 2001 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by apocalypse.org (8.11.2/8.11.0) id f58L9oF23995 for hexagram-8-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 17:09:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: apocalypse.org: majordom set sender to owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org using -f Received: from mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.46]) by apocalypse.org (8.11.2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f58L9nl23991 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 17:09:49 -0400 Received: from worldnet.att.net ([32.102.233.42]) by mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20010608211848.YIIT6716.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:18:48 +0000 Message-ID: <3B2141B6.4F27C293@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 17:20:54 -0400 From: Lare/Mo Lei-Li Organization: BableFish Communications of Orlando. "Building a Better Tower" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Subject: Re: HEX8: Re: References for early Chinese [Karlgren] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hexagram-8@apocalypse.org Re: Kargren's GSR As a Kargren groupie, I would like to defend the order of the GSR. -- But I cannot. I just don't know enough. I believe the entries first appeared in a series of articles in the Bulletin of the Museum of Far Eastern Antiquities. I suspect the GSR is simply a pasting together of those individual articles. Btw, there is an index/dictionary keyed to the GSR. It is by Tor Ulving and is very easy to use -- for serious researchers (ie, it costs about $70US). -MLL PS: You think the GSR is hard to use -- try his [inexpensive but very good] _Analytic Dictionary_. ===== To unsubscribe from Hexagram-8, send a message to majordomo@apocalypse.org from the address subscribed, containing just the word UNSUBSCRIBE.